How will you measure success?

[Paintrain]

There are 5 players currently on the roster who are key to our improvement in '09. Campbell, D. Thomas, Kelly, Haynesworth and Hall. We've spent the better part of the week debating JC vs. JC with stats, W-L %, etc, etc, etc. so spare the vague answers of 'doing a better job of XYZ' or 'fulfulling his potential' for any of them. Be as specific as you can.

So the question is simple, what would you consider success from:

Jason Campbell-

Devin Thomas-

Malcolm Kelly-

Albert Haynesworth-

DeAngelo Hall-

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

There are 5 players currently on the roster who are key to our improvement in '09. Campbell, D. Thomas, Kelly, Haynesworth and Hall. We've spent the better part of the week debating JC vs. JC with stats, W-L %, etc, etc, etc. so spare the vague answers of 'doing a better job of XYZ' or 'fulfulling his potential' for any of them. Be as specific as you can.

So the question is simple, what would you consider success from:

Jason Campbell-

Devin Thomas-

Malcolm Kelly-

Albert Haynesworth-

DeAngelo Hall-

Nice thread.

Jason Campbell - QB rating of 88 or better (NFL Average is 86). I want to see visibly quicker reads and decisions. And want to see the INT rate stay low again this year, prove that wasn't a fluke. Most of all, I want to see him take over at least one game and lead the team back from a deficit to win with a game-winning drive. IN that situation, I want to see him make the throws when everyone knows we're going to throw.

If he had a great line and great WRs to play with, I'd ask for a QB rating of 100. But I can't expect him to be a miracle worker here.

Devin Thomas - I can't see him being much more than a Devery Henderson at this point. But Henderson has made some nice deep plays at times for the Saints. Give me 5 TDs over the top throughout the season and I'll be happy. Not getting my hopes up though, because he'll need to step up the work ethic big time. So I guess I'm saying I'm already disappointed by Thomas and have already adjusted my expectations downward.

Malcolm Kelly - Number one, for God's sake, stay on the field. Give me 50 catches for 600 yards and I'll honestly be happy with that for a second season. Most of all, show that you can draw defensive attention in the red zone, drawing doubles and such, so that things open up for everyone else. Make chain-moving catches in traffic.

Albert Haynesworth - Against the run, I want to see this team in the top 3 against the run. We should be, our DEs are built to stop the run, Haynesworth is built to stop the run. Against the pass, I'll measure his impact by looking at the play of those around him. I want to see him drawing double teams. I don't care if Albert himself is held sackless, as long as others like Andre Carter, Griffin, and other defensive linemen are getting to the QB. So I guess I'd measure the team's total sacks. More importantly, I want to see a noticeable difference in the opposing QB's comfort level. If I frequently see a QB dropping back feeling completely comfortable, and taking his time to scan the field, then I'll be disappointed in Albert. A hurried QB means more turnovers, so we should see an uptick there.

DeAngelo Hall - Just show me that the pass defense doesn't drop off with Springs's absence. So really, I'm saying I'd judge him in tandem with Carlos Rogers and whoever the nickel is (Smoot). I was pleased with last year's pass D. Just do it again without Springs and I've got no problems. I want 5 INTs or more out of Hall, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for him.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nice thread.

Jason Campbell - QB rating of 88 or better (NFL Average is 86). I want to see visibly quicker reads and decisions. And want to see the INT rate stay low again this year, prove that wasn't a fluke. Most of all, I want to see him take over at least one game and lead the team back from a deficit to win with a game-winning drive. IN that situation, I want to see him make the throws when everyone knows we're going to throw.

If he had a great line and great WRs to play with, I'd ask for a QB rating of 100. But I can't expect him to be a miracle worker here.

Devin Thomas - I can't see him being much more than a Devery Henderson at this point. But Henderson has made some nice deep plays at times for the Saints. Give me 5 TDs over the top throughout the season and I'll be happy. Not getting my hopes up though, because he'll need to step up the work ethic big time. So I guess I'm saying I'm already disappointed by Thomas and have already adjusted my expectations downward.

Malcolm Kelly - Number one, for God's sake, stay on the field. Give me 50 catches for 600 yards and I'll honestly be happy with that for a second season. Most of all, show that you can draw defensive attention in the red zone, drawing doubles and such, so that things open up for everyone else. Make chain-moving catches in traffic.

Albert Haynesworth - Against the run, I want to see this team in the top 3 against the run. We should be, our DEs are built to stop the run, Haynesworth is built to stop the run. Against the pass, I'll measure his impact by looking at the play of those around him. I want to see him drawing double teams. I don't care if Albert himself is held sackless, as long as others like Andre Carter, Griffin, and other defensive linemen are getting to the QB. So I guess I'd measure the team's total sacks. More importantly, I want to see a noticeable difference in the opposing QB's comfort level. If I frequently see a QB dropping back feeling completely comfortable, and taking his time to scan the field, then I'll be disappointed in Albert. A hurried QB means more turnovers, so we should see an uptick there.

DeAngelo Hall - Just show me that the pass defense doesn't drop off with Springs's absence. So really, I'm saying I'd judge him in tandem with Carlos Rogers and whoever the nickel is (Smoot). I was pleased with last year's pass D. Just do it again without Springs and I've got no problems. I want 5 INTs or more out of Hall, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for him.

Agree! Nice thread!

1. JC- QB rating of 89 with 24 or more TDs, 9 or less Ints. I like your come-back scenario, we need more comebacks when the opponent gets up on us by a score or two. (89 Had to one up you Schneed!)

2. DT - 5-6 TDs, keep his head in the game, bring spark to the O, show that supposed speed, use it a good bit across the middle as well as deep.

3. MK - 50 catches would be good, but I guess we don't have Thrash anymore, and maybe that's addition by subtraction.

4. AH - Totally great call Schneed! I like your input! Can I claim it as my own?

5. DAH - More than 7 ints, and no TD's attributed to his side of the D. With AH I don't see QBs having as much time to pick the secondary apart. I'm not as sold on this being such a great secondary as many suppose. I'm going to miss SS because of his man-up skills on big WRs like TO.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nice thread.

Jason Campbell - QB rating of 88 or better (NFL Average is 86). I want to see visibly quicker reads and decisions. And want to see the INT rate stay low again this year, prove that wasn't a fluke. Most of all, I want to see him take over at least one game and lead the team back from a deficit to win with a game-winning drive. IN that situation, I want to see him make the throws when everyone knows we're going to throw.

If he had a great line and great WRs to play with, I'd ask for a QB rating of 100. But I can't expect him to be a miracle worker here.

Devin Thomas - I can't see him being much more than a Devery Henderson at this point. But Henderson has made some nice deep plays at times for the Saints. Give me 5 TDs over the top throughout the season and I'll be happy. Not getting my hopes up though, because he'll need to step up the work ethic big time. So I guess I'm saying I'm already disappointed by Thomas and have already adjusted my expectations downward.

Malcolm Kelly - Number one, for God's sake, stay on the field. Give me 50 catches for 600 yards and I'll honestly be happy with that for a second season. Most of all, show that you can draw defensive attention in the red zone, drawing doubles and such, so that things open up for everyone else. Make chain-moving catches in traffic.

Albert Haynesworth - Against the run, I want to see this team in the top 3 against the run. We should be, our DEs are built to stop the run, Haynesworth is built to stop the run. Against the pass, I'll measure his impact by looking at the play of those around him. I want to see him drawing double teams. I don't care if Albert himself is held sackless, as long as others like Andre Carter, Griffin, and other defensive linemen are getting to the QB. So I guess I'd measure the team's total sacks. More importantly, I want to see a noticeable difference in the opposing QB's comfort level. If I frequently see a QB dropping back feeling completely comfortable, and taking his time to scan the field, then I'll be disappointed in Albert. A hurried QB means more turnovers, so we should see an uptick there.

DeAngelo Hall - Just show me that the pass defense doesn't drop off with Springs's absence. So really, I'm saying I'd judge him in tandem with Carlos Rogers and whoever the nickel is (Smoot). I was pleased with last year's pass D. Just do it again without Springs and I've got no problems. I want 5 INTs or more out of Hall, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for him.

I'll second this and just add a few things:

JC: More production in the TD category. He needs to be around or over the 20 TD mark. As far as picks 10 or less. I think he's certainly capable of doing both. And a completion % closer to 65.

Thomas: Just look like you know what you're doing son. I'm not expecting a miracle, but let's see the right routes being run, a lot less dumb penalties, and some game changing plays here and there. Step up and earn your pay.

Kelly: Just stay healthy and I think the rest will take care of itself.

Haynesworth: Dude needs to earn his pay right out of the gate. He needs to be a beast against the run and collapse the pocket up the middle. Without question he needs to pick up where he left off in Tennessee. Note to Greg Blache, turn this guy loose please. I don't want to see him bottled up like we did with Taylor. Turn him loose and let him play his game.

Hall: He needs to make us not miss Springs in the least bit. Show the football world that you truly have matured and you are ready to be a prime time player on the field and in the locker room.

[Trample the Elderly]

There can only be one measure of success and that is winning. I don't care how many INT soup throws, nor do I care about how many catches those guys make. If hall intercepts every ball that is thrown in his direction, it will not matter if we come away from next season without a playoff appearance.

I think success should be measured more so with guys like Raback, Heyer, Dock, Samuels, Haynesworth, Griffin, Carter, and Daniels. If these guys aren't successful then it will not matter how good the flashy players are.

My measure of success is in the division. We know we can beat Filth-a-delphia. We can beat Dallas on any given Sunday. It's the NJGs that we need to be able to put down if we're going to be serious contenders in the division and make consistent playoff appearances that will lead to a SB.

Here's my measure for next year, and yes it is high.

NFC EAST: Redskins 5-1
Season: Redskins 12-4

That's a Division Championship and a playoff appearance. Until that happens there will never be another SB.

[rypper11]

JC - Quicker decision making. Within 3 seconds he has to know where to go.

Devin Thomas/Malcolm Kelly - I'd be ecstatic if either of them could become a decent 5th option (behind Moss, ARE, Portis and Cooley). If they could combine for 8 TD's this year they'll be delivering.

Al - I think you have to look at the whole DLines stats to see his impact. I agree with the top 3 against the run goal and I'd like to add below 55% comp by opponents qb's. If Carter gets over 12 sacks it will have a lot to do with Al.

Hall - He's being paid like a shutdown corner so he should deliver as such. The modern rules make it nearly impossible to keep a receiver to zero catches but no receiver should catch over 100 yards on him and he needs to get at least 6 picks.Of course, if Smoot and Carlos are getting torched no qb will look his way so he'll get no picks.

[724Skinsfan]

Campbell: He needs to average 4-5 drives a game that lead to scores, either ending in a TD or the occassional FG. We seemed to move the ball 30 yards every series last year but fizzled a lot around the opponents 40. That needs to change.

Devin Thomas/Malcolm Kelly: These guys just need to make plays consistently when the ball is thrown their way. So let's just say they need to combine for 1200 yards and 10 TD's. More would be nice.

Haynesworth: He's getting paid a lot of money so I expect 14 games with 10+ sacks and not allowing a individual rusher more than a 100 yards in a single game.

Hall: A lot of picks. 8 would be dreamy. I'd like to see him return 1 or 2 back for 6 points. He'll give up some TD's because he's a gambler so I'll expect that.

[GMScud]

For me, success from these guy will be measured in both tangibles and intangibles.

Jason Campbell
-Tangible: 3500+ yds, 20+ TDs, 10 or less INTs, a rating in the high 80s or better. How about a few hundred rushing yards? We saw late in the season how valuable an asset his legs can be.
-Intangible: As someone mentioned earlier, I'd like to see him step up and become THE leader of the team. I don't need him to be all rah-rah, but maybe a few late game rallies and a total command of the offense would be great. How will he turn the trade speculation into fuel for performance?

Devin Thomas
-Tangible: In the neighborhood of 30 catches, and 3-5 TDs. Also, I'd like to see signs of him becoming a deep threat. He's got the speed for sure. Unless he or Kelly overtake ARE for the #2, it's hard to expect more than 30 catches with two WRs and a TE in front of him as Campbell's go-to guys.
-Intangible: Work ethic and playbook knowledge. He needs to work as hard or harder than anyone on our offense to show he cares and belongs. Maturity, Devin. Let's see it.

Malcolm Kelly
-Tangible: See Devin Thomas. The exception being, rather than him develop as a deep threat, I'd like to see him develop as a red-zone threat. Nothing would make me happier than to see him catch some jump balls or fade routes in the end-zone a la Plaxico and Fitzgerald.
-Intangible: Don't know if this falls in this category, but HEALTH. I hope the knee issues are behind him. Unfortunately I doubt it.

Big Albert
-Tangible: If Greg Blache allows him to freelance like the Titans did, I see no reason why we shouldn't get a monster season out of Haynesworth. I think Blache already said he would let him do his thing, which is a positive.
-Intangible: How will he play now that he got his gigantic payday? He's saying all the right things. Let's see if he backs it up on the field. For the record I think he will.

D.Hall
-Tangible: Hall is paid like a shut-down corner. He needs to perform like one. I want to see him lock down our opponents #1 WRs. His style is a great fit for Blache's scheme. He played well for us last year. Keep it up and he'll be damn good for us. And teach Carlos some ball skills, would ya?
-Intangible: Character. He was a model citizen last year for us while knowing a big day was on the line. Now that he's got his money, will he become a malcontent?
------

I know it's not part of the original post, but obviously a big measure of the Redskins' 2009 success will be O-line. They need to stay healthy. That's numero uno for them.

[The Goat]

Great thread in general and I see the wisdom of GM's words: just a couple comments.

Originally Posted by GMScud

For me, success from these guy will be measured in both tangibles and intangibles.

Jason Campbell
-Tangible: 3500+ yds, 20+ TDs, 10 or less INTs, a rating in the high 80s or better. How about a few hundred rushing yards? We saw late in the season how valuable an asset his legs can be.
-Intangible: As someone mentioned earlier, I'd like to see him step up and become THE leader of the team. I don't need him to be all rah-rah, but maybe a few late game rallies and a total command of the offense would be great. How will he turn the trade speculation into fuel for performance?

I think the only legit criticisms of JC are his tendency to lock on a receiver when he's short on time...given time he scans the field pretty well. Well the WCO requires quick timing much of the time so he needs to scan faster and decide quicker on maybe half(?) the pass plays we run. That said...Jason is not the worry IMO if the o-line steps up and our WRs do their jobs

Originally Posted by GMScud

Devin Thomas
-Tangible: In the neighborhood of 30 catches, and 3-5 TDs. Also, I'd like to see signs of him becoming a deep threat. He's got the speed for sure. Unless he or Kelly overtake ARE for the #2, it's hard to expect more than 30 catches with two WRs and a TE in front of him as Campbell's go-to guys.
-Intangible: Work ethic and playbook knowledge. He needs to work as hard or harder than anyone on our offense to show he cares and belongs. Maturity, Devin. Let's see it.

While DT needs to bone up on the playbook and his routes I also think Zorn needs to design plays to get Devin the ball early and often. DT seems like an emotional player...a guy who will have a great game when you get him rolling so Zorn needs to get him rolling early!

Originally Posted by GMScud

Malcolm Kelly
-Tangible: See Devin Thomas. The exception being, rather than him develop as a deep threat, I'd like to see him develop as a red-zone threat. Nothing would make me happier than to see him catch some jump balls or fade routes in the end-zone a la Plaxico and Fitzgerald.
-Intangible: Don't know if this falls in this category, but HEALTH. I hope the knee issues are behind him. Unfortunately I doubt it.

Kelly's progress has as much to do w/ perception as reality beyond the need for him to stay healthy. He's so tall and at least in college had great hands...so it won't take more than a few 1st down catches and TDs before teams start to key in on him, which opens things up for everyone else. I'm not looking for Kelly to be the #1 guy, but for him to punish defenses that don't treat him like one.

Originally Posted by GMScud

Big Albert
-Tangible: If Greg Blache allows him to freelance like the Titans did, I see no reason why we shouldn't get a monster season out of Haynesworth. I think Blache already said he would let him do his thing, which is a positive.
-Intangible: How will he play now that he got his gigantic payday? He's saying all the right things. Let's see if he backs it up on the field. For the record I think he will.

There can't be even the slightest sign Albert mails it in...not even in one game. Second, he needs to utterly take over a few games this year, where he punishes the QB early and therefor the o-line has to double and triple team him the rest of the game so our other guys can wreak havoc in the backfield. Carter is a smart cat...i bet anything he's working harder than ever to button down technique so as to capitalize on Al's presence. Therefor Al will be a success if he takes over a few games and AC breaks a dozen sacks on the season. Personally I won't be surprised if Carter goes nuts and has 15 or 16.

Originally Posted by GMScud

D.Hall
-Tangible: Hall is paid like a shut-down corner. He needs to perform like one. I want to see him lock down our opponents #1 WRs. His style is a great fit for Blache's scheme. He played well for us last year. Keep it up and he'll be damn good for us. And teach Carlos some ball skills, would ya?
-Intangible: Character. He was a model citizen last year for us while knowing a big day was on the line. Now that he's got his money, will he become a malcontent?

Similar to big Al, we must see Hall literally take over a few games. There ought to be gamedays w/ multiple INTs and his receiver completely shutdown.

...generally I expect our secondary to "look" better this season because of the upgrades to our d-line. I think even Smooter has a rebound here (as a nickel ).

[BrudLee]

Jason Campbell- I will consider Campbell's season a success if we make the playoffs.

Devin Thomas- I will consider Thomas's season a success if we make the playoffs.

Malcolm Kelly- I will consider Kelly's season a success if we make the playoffs.

Albert Haynesworth- I will consider Haynesworth's season a success if we make the playoffs.

DeAngelo Hall- I will consider Hall's season a success if we make the playoffs.

Seriously, the individual stats are interesting, and I'd like to see improvement from the first three on the list. Campbell will (hopefully) have a better line, which should help with his sacks. His decision making was solid last year.

With Thomas and Kelly, it's tricky. We have a depth chart that they will have to overcome in order to have an impact. To ask Kelly to have 50 catches flies in the face of probability, if we project Moss to have 80 catches, Randle-El to have 60, Cooley to have 80, an assorted 50 from Portis/Betts, etc. What I'd like to see is Thomas to become the undisputed 3rd receiver, and for Kelly to highlight red zone and short yardage packages.

As for Haynesworth, I hope his impact is reflected in the stats of the other ten guys on the field. By freeing up lanes for another pass rusher, our sacks should rise - or the QB should be forced into poorer decisions.

DeAngelo Hall needs to play to his potential. I think he has hands that will put him into a good place interception-wise. Fortunately, with Owens and Burress out of the division, we have fewer physical receivers to body up.

[KI Skins Fan]

Jason Campbell: First and foremost, I want to see him show that he is the unquestioned leader of this team - not just the offense, but the entire team. I want to see him show some fire. I want to see him demand top-notch effort and performance from each and every player on the offense.

Secondly, I'd like him to trust himself and just let it flow. I'd like him to make some bold decisions that the HC might not like. I'd like to see him go deep much more often. I'd like him to take more chances for big plays and accept that he may have a few more interceptions. I'd like to see him run more.

Above all, I'd like to see the real JC this year, doing it his way.

I'd also like to see some physical improvements, but they are tertiary in my mind.

Devin Thomas: I know I'm in the minority on Devin, but I like him as a player. For one thing, he makes the catches that he should make. For me, that's big.

I want him to win the job opposite Santana Moss. I want him to be someone that JC can count on to move the sticks. I want him to make some deep catches for TD's. I want him to become a factor in the Red Zone. I think I'd be satisfied with 40-45 catches and 5 TD's in his first year as a starter, bearing in mind that he'll be sharing duties with Kelly and ARE.

Malcolm Kelly: I'd like him to be healthy. He was a great player in college and I think he'll be a good pro if he stays healthy. I'd like to see him become a reliable possession receiver and a factor in the Red Zone. If he gets 30 receptions and 3-4 TD's while splitting duties with Devin Thomas and ARE, I'd be happy.

Albert Haynesworth: I want to see him play at the same level here that he played at in Tennessee before he got the big contract. I want his play to demand that opponents double-team him. That would be huge for our team. I don't want to put any numbers around that.

Beyond that, I want to see him scare our opponents in the NFC East. I want him to maul them, frustrate them, fluster them, and cause them to panic and make mistakes.

DeAngelo Hall: I'd like to see him fit in with his teammates, play like he did last season, and not make me wish we still had Shawn Springs.

Beyond that, I want to see him make big plays. He's fully capable of 7 interceptions, and I'd love to see him take one or two of them to "the house".

[irish]

I really dont care how these players do or what their ratings are, all that matters is wins. If their stats are up and the Skins win 12 thats improvement. If their stats are down and the Skins win 12 thats improvement. Wins are all that matters.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by irish

I really dont care how these players do or what their ratings are, all that matters is wins. If their stats are up and the Skins win 12 thats improvement. If their stats are down and the Skins win 12 thats improvement. Wins are all that matters.

Obv. But in the event the team fails to improve in the W column, how will you decide who specifically is failing so you can support a stance to replace any of these players next season?

[NYCskinfan82]

Win win win

[CRedskinsRule]

I think everyone else's ideas sum it up. In terms of wins, a Division Title is almost a must historically, I'd hate to be shut out the whole decade.
I would like to see Campbell develop a true bond with one or both of the new receiver's, kind of like Monk provided, that one guy you knew would catch it on 3rd and whatever for that 1st down.

I also would consider Zorn's playcalling a success if we finish drives. We need to be able to see drives that get to the Red Zone, and not end on the opponent's 39. I would consider high 90% conversion of drives to points a success for Zorn.