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Old 07-08-2009, 11:29 PM   #1
mlmpetert
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HOF Candidates

Rodney Harrison Demands Your Respect -- NFL FanHouse

I think Rodney Harrison is a HOF saftey. But i also thought Monk was instant Hall of Fame material. Seeing less popular players have to wait I wonder if it takes away from being hall of fame, just like the pro bowl is now.

Does off the field conduct (good, bad or inactive) count towards status as a great or a pioneer of the game?

So my thought is does the Hall of Fame still hold the credibility that we give it or has it become a popularity contest? Should it?

Also does the position you play decide your greatness or should it. Does a QB or LB have more rights to being a all time great over an O tackle, TE, or D tackle? Should it?
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:34 AM   #2
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re: HOF Candidates

To me, off the field conduct SHOULD count. Just like Rose isn't in the hall as well as McGwire. If you test positive, you should be out IMO. They all know the rules, and they take their chances trying to beat the system. We all know they cheat, but we accept it cause they all do it. Problem is, the old players didn't. They had enough respect for the game not to do it. But again, just my opinion.
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:01 AM   #3
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re: HOF Candidates

They had no issue putting Michael Irvin in. He was a classless loudmouth showboat with legal issues involving crack and prostitutes. That said, he was a great player, and what he did on the field is what got him in. But a part of it is popularity as well. I don't think popularity should play a role, but as long as humans are voting, it inevitably always will. But overall the Hall of Fame is still a lofty, super highly respected thing.

I think off the field conduct should absolutely count towards your status as one of the greats and/or a pioneer of the game.

The position you play shouldn't dictate your greatness, but flashy positions like WRs and QBs are always going to get more publicity than O-lineman, fullbacks, etc.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:25 PM   #4
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Re: HOF Candidates

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
To me, off the field conduct SHOULD count. Just like Rose isn't in the hall as well as McGwire. If you test positive, you should be out IMO. They all know the rules, and they take their chances trying to beat the system. We all know they cheat, but we accept it cause they all do it. Problem is, the old players didn't. They had enough respect for the game not to do it. But again, just my opinion.
It's different in baseball. Baseball is a stat driven sport. I can understand a baseball player not getting in because he used steriods....even though I think it's silly cause the pitchers were doing it too. In football a guy like Troy Aikman can get in even though his stats aren't what a lot of HOF QB's are because he QB'd 3 SB winning teams.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:29 PM   #5
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Re: HOF Candidates

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To me, off the field conduct SHOULD count. Just like Rose isn't in the hall as well as McGwire. If you test positive, you should be out IMO. They all know the rules, and they take their chances trying to beat the system. We all know they cheat, but we accept it cause they all do it. Problem is, the old players didn't. They had enough respect for the game not to do it. But again, just my opinion.
I dont think you can put Rose & McGuire in the same category because Rose broke the only rule baseball really cared about, gambling. There are signs in every locker room saying no gambling, Rose knew he shouldnt bet but he did anyway.

Roids werent illegal (in baseball) when the ball were flying out of the park so IMO, McGuire didnt break any baseball rules so to me he could go in.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:56 PM   #6
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Re: HOF Candidates

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I dont think you can put Rose & McGuire in the same category because Rose broke the only rule baseball really cared about, gambling. There are signs in every locker room saying no gambling, Rose knew he shouldnt bet but he did anyway.

Roids werent illegal (in baseball) when the ball were flying out of the park so IMO, McGuire didnt break any baseball rules so to me he could go in.
Mark McGwire and these guys broke the law. Baseball doesn't have to specifically state every rule. I never understood why the players union made the players seem like they were immune from the law, like a foreign country. It was like everybody knew people were using steroids, but nobody did anything and they always used the excuse the players union is too strong, like they didn't have to follow the laws of the US. If Mark McGwire and all these guys didn't do anything wrong then how come they all lied about it. I think all these guys should not get into the HOF. They'll have to live with the fact that they cheated and they didn't get in for the rest of their life. The most important thing is that kids will learn that it's not acceptable and it's not going to get them anywhere and these guys really regret what they did.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:05 AM   #7
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Re: HOF Candidates

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Mark McGwire and these guys broke the law. Baseball doesn't have to specifically state every rule. I never understood why the players union made the players seem like they were immune from the law, like a foreign country. It was like everybody knew people were using steroids, but nobody did anything and they always used the excuse the players union is too strong, like they didn't have to follow the laws of the US. If Mark McGwire and all these guys didn't do anything wrong then how come they all lied about it. I think all these guys should not get into the HOF. They'll have to live with the fact that they cheated and they didn't get in for the rest of their life. The most important thing is that kids will learn that it's not acceptable and it's not going to get them anywhere and these guys really regret what they did.
Baseball doesn't even follow the nations' antitrust rules clearly the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to the league or its players.

In all seriousness though a) baseball would be a bit hypocritical not letting these guys in because they know that, especially after the 1994, two things helped bring baseball back-Ripken and the long ball. The league office can't get on its high horse all it wants now but it knew what was happening with Bonds, McGwire, Sosa back then but why stop it when those 500 foot blasts were putting fans in the seats and more money in the owners' pockets? and b) what about a guy like Ferguson Jenkins, who broke the law by possessing and using cocaine? He's in the Hall of Fame. Is what he did ok because it wasn't steroids?
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:09 PM   #8
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Re: HOF Candidates

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Baseball doesn't even follow the nations' antitrust rules clearly the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to the league or its players.
Keep in mind, we always blame "baseball", when in fact it's cause there is a complete cancer in MLB, called the Players Association. If they didn't have certain things they would walk. Don't forget, they finally saw the error of their ways and allowed for testing in 05. One of the agreements was to not allow tests before 05 to NEVER be made public. The PA is the main reason for the PED era. The owners didn't help by not demanding it no matter what, but they didn't want the best players in the world sitting out, that would have hurt their pocket book, so they accepted demands. The PA needs to be abolished. It doesn't help baseball at all, it's once gave baseball a black eye, now it gave baseball cancer.

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what about a guy like Ferguson Jenkins, who broke the law by possessing and using cocaine? He's in the Hall of Fame. Is what he did ok because it wasn't steroids?
This brings up an interesting point...maybe all the HOF's should put ground rules in place that you won't be accepted if you are not a decent member of society. Of course that could cause legal ramifications, but maybe if the HOF's took a stronger stance, we wouldn't need to debate these things.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:25 PM   #9
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Re: HOF Candidates

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Baseball doesn't even follow the nations' antitrust rules clearly the laws that apply to the rest of us don't apply to the league or its players.

In all seriousness though a) baseball would be a bit hypocritical not letting these guys in because they know that, especially after the 1994, two things helped bring baseball back-Ripken and the long ball. The league office can't get on its high horse all it wants now but it knew what was happening with Bonds, McGwire, Sosa back then but why stop it when those 500 foot blasts were putting fans in the seats and more money in the owners' pockets? and b) what about a guy like Ferguson Jenkins, who broke the law by possessing and using cocaine? He's in the Hall of Fame. Is what he did ok because it wasn't steroids?
Personally, I don't think Jenkins should be in, unless he worked to be a better person after. I think Michael Irvin is a good example of this, because he made mistakes, but became a better person after and became a role model. I think the difference between Jenkins and the steroid guys is you can directly point to the fact that the steroids helped make the stats that these guys put up, but the cocaine is different. You never know if they would have put up HOF numbers if they didn't take steroids.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:03 PM   #10
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Re: HOF Candidates

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I dont think you can put Rose & McGuire in the same category because Rose broke the only rule baseball really cared about, gambling. There are signs in every locker room saying no gambling, Rose knew he shouldnt bet but he did anyway.

Roids werent illegal (in baseball) when the ball were flying out of the park so IMO, McGuire didnt break any baseball rules so to me he could go in.
You certainly make a point. I was one of a few that defended McGwire because he admitted to using Andro, which was a LEGAL substance. Although he has been implicated in using other PED's.
Funny how MLB was not OK with gambling, but OK with players beefing up using substances.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #11
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Re: HOF Candidates

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You certainly make a point. I was one of a few that defended McGwire because he admitted to using Andro, which was a LEGAL substance. Although he has been implicated in using other PED's.
Funny how MLB was not OK with gambling, but OK with players beefing up using substances.
MLB wasnt ok with gambling because gambling almost brought down the game in 1919. I dont think MLB was ok with players doing it but like another post says, the players union has a say in how things happen.

I do think there is a double standard when it comes to baseball and roids. When a baseball player (especially a high profile one) uses roids its almost a national scandal where the public demands they be banned for like but when an NFL player is caught (I think it was Shawn Merriman but I know it was a charger a few years ago) they get 2 weeks off, are back in time for the playoffs, and there is almost no public outcry. Its like the public expects football players to use and so when they get caught its expected.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:02 PM   #12
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Re: HOF Candidates

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MLB wasnt ok with gambling because gambling almost brought down the game in 1919. I dont think MLB was ok with players doing it but like another post says, the players union has a say in how things happen.
Great point.

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I do think there is a double standard when it comes to baseball and roids. When a baseball player (especially a high profile one) uses roids its almost a national scandal where the public demands they be banned for like but when an NFL player is caught (I think it was Shawn Merriman but I know it was a charger a few years ago) they get 2 weeks off, are back in time for the playoffs, and there is almost no public outcry. Its like the public expects football players to use and so when they get caught its expected.
It's not that people expect it in football, it's that if you had to name 1 sport that is sooo far into the PED's, which would it be? Of course it's baseball. Why? Because it's no longer about the 1 or 2 guys or even 4 or 5 guys that get caught like it is in football. It's about the hundreds of guys that have used and have tainted the game over it. If the public sees only one or 2 guys getting busted in football, they are not likely to throw a tantrum. But if you see a list (like that of the failed tests in 2003 that was leaked not too long ago that had 103 or 104 players on it) that speak volumes. When players like Palmiero wave that finger at congress and say "I never took steroids, period" then tests positive, are you expecting america to turn the other cheek? It's because baseball has abused the tolerance level of usage of PEDS while football probably does a better job of hiding it, or not seeing it, therefore people think it's not a problem. I guarentee you if football started seeing 50+ players test positive, there would be an outcry.
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Old 07-09-2009, 03:15 AM   #13
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re: HOF Candidates

no way he gets in. no one should be rewarded for dirty play. and whats a canidate?
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #14
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no way he gets in. no one should be rewarded for dirty play. and whats a canidate?
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:10 AM   #15
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Re: HOF Candidates

He absolutely changed the way the position was played and his point about Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Bob Sanders is very valid. And the Pro Bowl is ridiculous and shouldn't even be mentioned among retired players stats. I think he was a great player but not HOF great. Even if he hadn't been caught doping he shouldn't be in but since he was he shouldn't even be considered.
As for the position argument I think only kickers and punters have an argument. Ray Guy altered the game and gave his team a huge field position advantage every game. Mosley was a league MVP but is never even considered for HOF.
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