I'm Not Sticking By Gibbs

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-01-2004, 01:47 PM

I'm not sticking by Gibbs for one simple reason - Mark Brunell.

As the Washington Post's Michael Wilbon pointed out in today's paper, Brunell has the lowest completion percentage of any full-time starter in the NFL and he has had the lowest third-down conversion rate in the league.

Moreover Wilbon has gone to opponents locker rooms after each game to ask a veteran defensive player with credentials to tell him about Brunell. And each week he's been told that Brunell is most of the problem, that their defensive game plan is to gang up on Portis until Brunell completes some passes downfield, that defensive coordinators are convinced Brunell can't do that any more with any consistency.

Yesterday he asked Packers safety Darren Sharper the same questions. Asked what the defensive game plan was against Brunell, Sharper said: "Knock him down. He doesn't want to get hit. The plan -- and you can see other teams doing the same thing on film -- is to not let him set his feet. Make him roll out. Hit him enough, and sooner or later it'll mess up his accuracy. He's not the same quarterback he used to be. Look, I played against him in Jacksonville, and he was a very, very accurate passer. But in the pocket now, his passes sail. He has to roll out now; maybe he sees his receivers better. I don't know if he's as comfortable in this offense or what. But he's not the same quarterback."

I'm sorry, but keeping Brunell in the game is killing us. I saw it by week 2, the fans were screaming it yesterday, Wilbon can see it, every analyst in the league sees it, and most everyone on this site can see it. Why can't Joe Gibbs?

I have so much love for Gibbs; he brought our city 3 Lombardi trophies and he's just a really likeable guy. I will always admire Joe Gibbs for what he has done and who he is, but that doesn't mean I'm going to always defer to him.

Gibbs is sticking by Brunell because Joe was the key man in sending away a 2nd rounder for him (we traded a second rounder to get Cooley who we would've been able to draft with our 3rd round pick that we gave to Jacksonville for Brunell), we paid an amazing $40 million for him, and he's a veteran. Does anyone think for a SECOND that if Ramsey had the lowest completion percentage in the league, the lowest 3rd down conversion rate in the league, failed to score 21 points in ANY game, and led us to a 2-5 record EVEN THOUGH we have the best defensive unit in the game that Gibbs wouldn't have benched him? I think not.

For that, I personally blame Gibbs for keeping Brunell in and sinking our season.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-01-2004, 02:00 PM

The Redskins are scoring fewer points per game (a pathetic 14) than any other team in the league. For that I blame Brunell and Gibbs.

Riggo44 · 11-02-2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

The Redskins are scoring fewer points per game (a pathetic 14) than any other team in the league. For that I blame Brunell and Gibbs.

I right there with you. Change the Q.B Joe. Please!!

JWsleep · 11-01-2004, 02:13 PM

Look, Gibbs would be the first to admit that the buck stops with him. He's gone so far as to say so repeatedly. He just thinks that the team is better off right now with Brunnell at the helm. I fully support Gibbs, but I disagree with his decision to stick with Brunnell. Is that a contradiction in terms? No. You can fully support someone even if you don't agree with everything they do. (Probably a lot of people voting in the presidential election, on either side, feel this way...)

Redskins_P · 11-01-2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Look, Gibbs would be the first to admit that the buck stops with him. He's gone so far as to say so repeatedly. He just thinks that the team is better off right now with Brunnell at the helm. I fully support Gibbs, but I disagree with his decision to stick with Brunnell. Is that a contradiction in terms? No. You can fully support someone even if you don't agree with everything they do. (Probably a lot of people voting in the presidential election, on either side, feel this way...)

I totally agree.....

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-01-2004, 02:15 PM

I have no doubt that Gibbs will eventually turn this ship around, I just think he's slowing down the process by keeping Brunell in - for that, he's to share in the blame game.

LadyT · 11-01-2004, 03:35 PM

Gibbs' hard-headedness is killing us right now. Why does he insist on sticking with Brunell, when it's so obvious to the whole world that Brunell is the major problem on the offense?

Several reasons, I think: 1) he personally went after Brunell in the off-season and it would be a tremendous embarrassment for him to pull his support from "his" guy, 2) the Skins (Snyder) paid Brunell a lot of money and can't afford to admit their mistake so soon after coughing up the bucks, 3) Gibbs is so enamored of playing proven vets that he can't see the forest for the trees.

I, for one, am mightily disappointed in Gibbs right now. His refusal to admit the obvious is costing the Skins their entire season. He should have made a change a couple of games ago, when there was still something left to salvage. If this were Spurrier being so pig-headed everyone would be all over him.

I can't believe Ramsey could play any worse than Brunell is playing. Maybe his strong arm and toughness is exactly what is needed to turn this thing around. All I know is that I don't want to have to suffer through one more game with Brunell because he just isn't getting the job done.

I would be willing to bet the house that many of the offensive players have lost all faith in their QB, but can't publicly say so. If you'll notice, hardly any of them are coming to Brunell's defense right now. Instead, they're noticeably quiet.

Bottom line is - Gibbs went after him and Gibbs is continuing to play him. So, Gibbs should take 99% of the blame for what is happening on offense. By the same token, Gibbs went after Gregg Williams and got him and that has proven to be a master stroke. So, I give Gibbs a lot of credit for how well the defense has performed. But, you really can't be a contender with only 1/3 of the team playing like champions.

Gibbs has really disappointed me these past 3 or 4 weeks and now the season is, for all intents and purposes, over.

jbcjr14 · 11-01-2004, 02:15 PM

I have to ditto JW here. Gibbs has taken the blame in this one, but I don't agree with his decision to keep Brunell at the helm. One more loss and I think he will pull the plug and put Ramsey in there. Remember though, Ramsey probably would have thrown a couple picks when Brunell ate it for a sack yesterday.

SkinsRock · 11-01-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcjr14

I have to ditto JW here. Gibbs has taken the blame in this one, but I don't agree with his decision to keep Brunell at the helm. One more loss and I think he will pull the plug and put Ramsey in there. Remember though, Ramsey probably would have thrown a couple picks when Brunell ate it for a sack yesterday.

I agree with JW too.
I don't agree that Ramsey would have probably thrown picks instead of taking sacks....who knows, maybe he would use him arm to throw a strike and get the ball to a receiver even when he is well covered? To point is, no one knows what Ramsey would have done or will do (at least for this week), because Gibbs it being stubborn by sticking with Brunell. I respect Gibbs and support him, but that doesn't mean I agree with this decision.

FRPLG · 11-01-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

I agree with JW too.
I don't agree that Ramsey would have probably thrown picks instead of taking sacks....who knows, maybe he would use him arm to throw a strike and get the ball to a receiver even when he is well covered? To point is, no one knows what Ramsey would have done or will do (at least for this week), because Gibbs it being stubborn by sticking with Brunell. I respect Gibbs and support him, but that doesn't mean I agree with this decision.

I think Gibbs looks at it like it is his job to evaluate players and based on what he has seen he doesn't think Ramsey would help us any. I don't think Joe ever showed a stubborness to only do things his way and based all his decisions on his pride. In fact he seems the opposite to me. Looks to me like he jus doesn't have any faith in ramsey so why put him in?

CRT3 · 11-01-2004, 03:52 PM

This is a ridiculouc thread!!!! We have been in every game so far this year right to the end. The last 12 years this was not the case. With a few years in one system I would imagine you will start to see a turnaround. Was there one game we wern't totally into up untill the end? Can you say this about past years? This is where Gibbs makes a difference. If not Gibbs who would you replace him with? We seem to have now left the Colledge boys behind, so that might leave someone in the pro ranks. Slim picking boys so you should hope Gibbs remains for at least the 5 years he signed up for otherwise we are in serious trouble. Please explode this thread!!!!

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-01-2004, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRT3

This is a ridiculouc thread!!!! We have been in every game so far this year right to the end. The last 12 years this was not the case. With a few years in one system I would imagine you will start to see a turnaround. Was there one game we wern't totally into up untill the end? Can you say this about past years? This is where Gibbs makes a difference. If not Gibbs who would you replace him with? We seem to have now left the Colledge boys behind, so that might leave someone in the pro ranks. Slim picking boys so you should hope Gibbs remains for at least the 5 years he signed up for otherwise we are in serious trouble. Please explode this thread!!!!

Our defense has kept it close, our offense has not. Gibbs has said that he's let Williams coach the defense and the offense is "his thing." Considering that our defense is ranked #1 and our offense is ranked 26th, how is it that Gibbs has been doing his job?

FRPLG · 11-01-2004, 03:45 PM

Not a big fan of Brunnell but my guess is Gibbs doesn't think Ramsey can suceed with this offensive line since he is a statue so our only hope is that Brunell picks it up. I think Gibbs is probably lamenting jumping on Brunell so early when unbeknownst to anyone in the league the 49ers were gonna cut Garcia but this is what we're stuck with. A relatively mobile QB with a weak inaccurate arm and a granite statue with a strong arm who'll get sacked 7 times a game. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I blame Gibss for this but I bet he does too. This will get fixed sooner or later. Probably later...as in adios ramsey and hello someone capable of moving around back there so we don't have to play geriatric Mark Brunell.

MTK · 11-01-2004, 03:55 PM

I'm not sure the poll is very objective here so I went with other.

I'll stick by Gibbs through thick and thin. I'd much rather be in this situation with Gibbs than Spurrier. Even though times are tough, I don't have that same sinking feeling that I had last year. The record might say 2-5, but the team is still battling and sticking together. Last year it seemed the team rolled over and gave up. That to me is a direct reflection of the Head Coach.

Gibbs will get this thing worked out, he's too smart and too determined not too. He's going to put in the time and effort to get things fixed. Nobody wants to bring DC a winner more than Gibbs. He didn't have to come back to the game, he's a Hall of Famer, 3 Super Bowl rings and nothing else to prove. But he did come back and part of the reason was he was getting sick of seeing the Redskins get kicked around. And now he has to deal with boo's at home calling for Ramsey and thousands of assistant coaches on the internet who somehow have more knowledge of the game than he does.

In this day and age of 'what have you done for me lately' I guess 3 Championships quickly loses it's luster, but I think we owe him our patience. As I pointed out in another thread Dick Vermiel has gone through very similar circumstances, he back back after a long layoff, his teams struggled in their first two seasons, but patience, dedication and hard work paid off.

If anybody wants off the Gibbs bandwagon fine, but don't come crawling back once he gets things turned around.

SkinsRock · 11-01-2004, 04:16 PM

People have pointed out that last year under Spurrier, the Skins whad a better record at this point. True, but where did they go from there? Straight down! The point is, while it is frustrating as hell being 2-5, it feels different than if Spurrier, or anyone else for that matter, was the head coach. With Gibbs, combined with the way we have lost those 5 games (with the D keeping them close to the end), there is much less of a sense of panic. Odds are that he WILL somehow, some way get the ship turned around, and while in all likelyhood the Skins probably won't make the playoffs, there is a good chance that the season will end on an upswing....which will set the stage for the Skins being a formidable team next season. If you ask me, that's a hell of a lot better than starting 3-1, only to end up 5-11. IN GIBBS WE TRUST.

View Poll Results: Is Gibbs to Blame for the Teams Woes?
Of course not, he's not out on the field	19	22.09%
Brunell is partly to blame and Gibbs is partly to blame	41	47.67%
The buck stops at his feet	16	18.60%
Other	10	11.63%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

11-01-2004, 02:13 PM	#4
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,719	Look, Gibbs would be the first to admit that the buck stops with him. He's gone so far as to say so repeatedly. He just thinks that the team is better off right now with Brunnell at the helm. I fully support Gibbs, but I disagree with his decision to stick with Brunnell. Is that a contradiction in terms? No. You can fully support someone even if you don't agree with everything they do. (Probably a lot of people voting in the presidential election, on either side, feel this way...) __________________ Hail from Houston!

11-01-2004, 02:15 PM	#8
jbcjr14 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Age: 54 Posts: 2,015	I have to ditto JW here. Gibbs has taken the blame in this one, but I don't agree with his decision to keep Brunell at the helm. One more loss and I think he will pull the plug and put Ramsey in there. Remember though, Ramsey probably would have thrown a couple picks when Brunell ate it for a sack yesterday. __________________ "Work Harder: millions on welfare are counting on you" - Obama 2009 address to Congress.

11-01-2004, 01:47 PM	#1
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	I'm Not Sticking By Gibbs I'm not sticking by Gibbs for one simple reason - Mark Brunell. As the Washington Post's Michael Wilbon pointed out in today's paper, Brunell has the lowest completion percentage of any full-time starter in the NFL and he has had the lowest third-down conversion rate in the league. Moreover Wilbon has gone to opponents locker rooms after each game to ask a veteran defensive player with credentials to tell him about Brunell. And each week he's been told that Brunell is most of the problem, that their defensive game plan is to gang up on Portis until Brunell completes some passes downfield, that defensive coordinators are convinced Brunell can't do that any more with any consistency. Yesterday he asked Packers safety Darren Sharper the same questions. Asked what the defensive game plan was against Brunell, Sharper said: "Knock him down. He doesn't want to get hit. The plan -- and you can see other teams doing the same thing on film -- is to not let him set his feet. Make him roll out. Hit him enough, and sooner or later it'll mess up his accuracy. He's not the same quarterback he used to be. Look, I played against him in Jacksonville, and he was a very, very accurate passer. But in the pocket now, his passes sail. He has to roll out now; maybe he sees his receivers better. I don't know if he's as comfortable in this offense or what. But he's not the same quarterback." I'm sorry, but keeping Brunell in the game is killing us. I saw it by week 2, the fans were screaming it yesterday, Wilbon can see it, every analyst in the league sees it, and most everyone on this site can see it. Why can't Joe Gibbs? I have so much love for Gibbs; he brought our city 3 Lombardi trophies and he's just a really likeable guy. I will always admire Joe Gibbs for what he has done and who he is, but that doesn't mean I'm going to always defer to him. Gibbs is sticking by Brunell because Joe was the key man in sending away a 2nd rounder for him (we traded a second rounder to get Cooley who we would've been able to draft with our 3rd round pick that we gave to Jacksonville for Brunell), we paid an amazing $40 million for him, and he's a veteran. Does anyone think for a SECOND that if Ramsey had the lowest completion percentage in the league, the lowest 3rd down conversion rate in the league, failed to score 21 points in ANY game, and led us to a 2-5 record EVEN THOUGH we have the best defensive unit in the game that Gibbs wouldn't have benched him? I think not. For that, I personally blame Gibbs for keeping Brunell in and sinking our season.

11-01-2004, 02:00 PM	#2
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	The Redskins are scoring fewer points per game (a pathetic 14) than any other team in the league. For that I blame Brunell and Gibbs.

11-01-2004, 03:35 PM	#7
LadyT Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 219	Gibbs' hard-headedness is killing us right now. Why does he insist on sticking with Brunell, when it's so obvious to the whole world that Brunell is the major problem on the offense? Several reasons, I think: 1) he personally went after Brunell in the off-season and it would be a tremendous embarrassment for him to pull his support from "his" guy, 2) the Skins (Snyder) paid Brunell a lot of money and can't afford to admit their mistake so soon after coughing up the bucks, 3) Gibbs is so enamored of playing proven vets that he can't see the forest for the trees. I, for one, am mightily disappointed in Gibbs right now. His refusal to admit the obvious is costing the Skins their entire season. He should have made a change a couple of games ago, when there was still something left to salvage. If this were Spurrier being so pig-headed everyone would be all over him. I can't believe Ramsey could play any worse than Brunell is playing. Maybe his strong arm and toughness is exactly what is needed to turn this thing around. All I know is that I don't want to have to suffer through one more game with Brunell because he just isn't getting the job done. I would be willing to bet the house that many of the offensive players have lost all faith in their QB, but can't publicly say so. If you'll notice, hardly any of them are coming to Brunell's defense right now. Instead, they're noticeably quiet. Bottom line is - Gibbs went after him and Gibbs is continuing to play him. So, Gibbs should take 99% of the blame for what is happening on offense. By the same token, Gibbs went after Gregg Williams and got him and that has proven to be a master stroke. So, I give Gibbs a lot of credit for how well the defense has performed. But, you really can't be a contender with only 1/3 of the team playing like champions. Gibbs has really disappointed me these past 3 or 4 weeks and now the season is, for all intents and purposes, over.

11-01-2004, 03:52 PM	#11
CRT3 Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Rockville Age: 61 Posts: 795	This is a ridiculouc thread!!!! We have been in every game so far this year right to the end. The last 12 years this was not the case. With a few years in one system I would imagine you will start to see a turnaround. Was there one game we wern't totally into up untill the end? Can you say this about past years? This is where Gibbs makes a difference. If not Gibbs who would you replace him with? We seem to have now left the Colledge boys behind, so that might leave someone in the pro ranks. Slim picking boys so you should hope Gibbs remains for at least the 5 years he signed up for otherwise we are in serious trouble. Please explode this thread!!!!

11-01-2004, 03:45 PM	#13
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Not a big fan of Brunnell but my guess is Gibbs doesn't think Ramsey can suceed with this offensive line since he is a statue so our only hope is that Brunell picks it up. I think Gibbs is probably lamenting jumping on Brunell so early when unbeknownst to anyone in the league the 49ers were gonna cut Garcia but this is what we're stuck with. A relatively mobile QB with a weak inaccurate arm and a granite statue with a strong arm who'll get sacked 7 times a game. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I blame Gibss for this but I bet he does too. This will get fixed sooner or later. Probably later...as in adios ramsey and hello someone capable of moving around back there so we don't have to play geriatric Mark Brunell.

11-01-2004, 03:55 PM	#14
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,573	I'm not sure the poll is very objective here so I went with other. I'll stick by Gibbs through thick and thin. I'd much rather be in this situation with Gibbs than Spurrier. Even though times are tough, I don't have that same sinking feeling that I had last year. The record might say 2-5, but the team is still battling and sticking together. Last year it seemed the team rolled over and gave up. That to me is a direct reflection of the Head Coach. Gibbs will get this thing worked out, he's too smart and too determined not too. He's going to put in the time and effort to get things fixed. Nobody wants to bring DC a winner more than Gibbs. He didn't have to come back to the game, he's a Hall of Famer, 3 Super Bowl rings and nothing else to prove. But he did come back and part of the reason was he was getting sick of seeing the Redskins get kicked around. And now he has to deal with boo's at home calling for Ramsey and thousands of assistant coaches on the internet who somehow have more knowledge of the game than he does. In this day and age of 'what have you done for me lately' I guess 3 Championships quickly loses it's luster, but I think we owe him our patience. As I pointed out in another thread Dick Vermiel has gone through very similar circumstances, he back back after a long layoff, his teams struggled in their first two seasons, but patience, dedication and hard work paid off. If anybody wants off the Gibbs bandwagon fine, but don't come crawling back once he gets things turned around.

11-01-2004, 04:16 PM	#15
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	People have pointed out that last year under Spurrier, the Skins whad a better record at this point. True, but where did they go from there? Straight down! The point is, while it is frustrating as hell being 2-5, it feels different than if Spurrier, or anyone else for that matter, was the head coach. With Gibbs, combined with the way we have lost those 5 games (with the D keeping them close to the end), there is much less of a sense of panic. Odds are that he WILL somehow, some way get the ship turned around, and while in all likelyhood the Skins probably won't make the playoffs, there is a good chance that the season will end on an upswing....which will set the stage for the Skins being a formidable team next season. If you ask me, that's a hell of a lot better than starting 3-1, only to end up 5-11. IN GIBBS WE TRUST.

I'm Not Sticking By Gibbs

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