Pretend you are the Skins' GM...

[sportscurmudgeon]

If what I am hearing is correct, Asante Samuel can be had in a trade very quickly.

OK, you are the Skins' GM and you have already ascertained that you can afford Samuel under the salary cap since you would trade for him and assume the terms of that deal.

Two questions:

1. Do you try to persuade Mike Shanahan/Jim Haslett that it is worth acquiring him?

2. What price are you willing to pay Philly for Samuel?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

If what I am hearing is correct, Asante Samuel can be had in a trade very quickly.

OK, you are the Skins' GM and you have already ascertained that you can afford Samuel under the salary cap since you would trade for him and assume the terms of that deal.

Two questions:

1. Do you try to persuade Mike Shanahan/Jim Haslett that it is worth acquiring him?

2. What price are you willing to pay Philly for Samuel?

Well if I'm the GM and I've ascertained all that you've written, my next step is to ask the coach if he wants him. Then when Mike Shanahan says no, we're good at cornerback and I don't feel like giving up whatever crazy amount Phillly wants for him, I say ok, back to my daily routine.

[Ruhskins]

I'd rather get Hayden.

[GridIron26]

There is no way I would try to trade for Samuel, we already have a player who takes risks in Hall. We do not need another player that does exactly same thing on other side..

[Monkeydad]

If the Eagles were to trade another player to us, there are two scenarios:


1.) Player is no longer effective/valuable/worth contract and they have replaced his roster spot with an upgrade already (true)

2.) If the player is still useful, they will demand a high price tag from us, most likely in the form of high draft picks. In no way would they allow themselves to be on the losing end of the deal to a division rival.

Conclusion: Do not deal with the Eagles again under any circumstances. Samuel is on the downside of his career and the conditions are similar to the McNabb deal. Samuel has gone from #1 to #3 on the depth chart quickly and has been replaced another more-talented vet and a younger up-and-coming player who are both better at this point in their careers.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

If the Eagles were to trade another player to us, there are two scenarios:


1.) Player is no longer effective/valuable/worth contract and they have replaced his roster spot with an upgrade already (true)

2.) If the player is still useful, they will demand a high price tag from us, most likely in the form of high draft picks. In no way would they allow themselves to be on the losing end of the deal to a division rival.

Conclusion: Do not deal with the Eagles again under any circumstances. Samuel is on the downside of his career and the conditions are similar to the McNabb deal. Samuel has gone from #1 to #3 on the depth chart quickly and has been replaced by two younger players who are better at this point in their careers.

Yeah if we trade for Samuels were helping the eagles. Never help the eagles.

[GTripp0012]

I don't see it. Maybe a year from now, we'll find we're a cornerback short and should have traded for Samuel.

He's probably worth Ryan Torain + a 3rd round pick to us, but I'm not sure it would even make sense for Philly to do that. They've gone this far to improve their pass and pass defense units, I don't see them weakening their pass coverage to add a power complement to Shady McCoy.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't see it. Maybe a year from now, we'll find we're a cornerback short and should have traded for Samuel.

He's probably worth Ryan Torain + a 3rd round pick to us, but I'm not sure it would even make sense for Philly to do that. They've gone this far to improve their pass and pass defense units, I don't see them weakening their pass coverage to add a power complement to Shady McCoy.

Hellllllllllllllllllll no.

Our starting RB who is younger (24 YO)...and a 3rd? That's getting raked over the coals as badly as the McNabb deal...actually worse since we'd be losing an effective player as well as a higher-round draft pick.

When CBs get up in age and their speed begins to go, their usefulness plummets very quickly.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

Hellllllllllllllllllll no.

Our starting RB who is younger (24 YO)...and a 3rd? That's getting raked over the coals as badly as the McNabb deal...actually worse since we'd be losing an effective player as well as a higher-round draft pick.

When CBs get up in age and their speed begins to go, their usefulness plummets very quickly.

Well, first, I think Torain is in that "traded because he won't make the team" category along with Holliday and Jarmon.

And the third round pick, yeah, you'd probably be best off holding onto those. Unless you're buying low on Asante Samuel and weakening the Eagles in the process. The McNabb trade was bad because, among many other reasons, we were solving a major intangible logjam at the QB position for the Eagles, helping them both get better in the short term and move on from McNabb as a depth chart obstruction.

But Samuel isn't a depth chart obstruction. He's a second corner on a team with super bowl aspirations and two no. 1 corners. He'd also fit our scheme really well.

Also, with three years on his contract, it's not like giving up a second round pick for the last two years of an aging Jason Taylor's contract when the team didn't actually have cap room. It's about finding the right price. A runner who is useless to us and a third round pick seems like a good price for a guy who would be our no. 1 CB.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, first, I think Torain is in that "traded because he won't make the team" category along with Holliday and Jarmon.

And the third round pick, yeah, you'd probably be best off holding onto those. Unless you're buying low on Asante Samuel and weakening the Eagles in the process. The McNabb trade was bad because, among many other reasons, we were solving a major intangible logjam at the QB position for the Eagles, helping them both get better in the short term and move on from McNabb as a depth chart obstruction.

But Samuel isn't a depth chart obstruction. He's a second corner on a team with super bowl aspirations and two no. 1 corners. He'd also fit our scheme really well.

Also, with three years on his contract, it's not like giving up a second round pick for the last two years of an aging Jason Taylor's contract when the team didn't actually have cap room. It's about finding the right price. A runner who is useless to us and a third round pick seems like a good price for a guy who would be our no. 1 CB.

Now come on, isn't that selling Torain a bit short? I know he's not the greatest all around back, considering he's not great at pass blocking and he doesn't play ST, but he does have some ability as a runner.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mooby

Now come on, isn't that selling Torain a bit short? I know he's not the greatest all around back, considering he's not great at pass blocking and he doesn't play ST, but he does have some ability as a runner.

Not really. The day we admit we can't do better than Ryan Torain (easily and cheaply) would be the day we give up the idea of being a rush-first football team.

Not to mention we just traded for Hightower two days ago.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, first, I think Torain is in that "traded because he won't make the team" category along with Holliday and Jarmon.....

A runner who is useless to us and a third round pick seems like a good price for a guy who would be our no. 1 CB.

First off, in our current situation (rebuilding) no way I trade for Samuel.

I don't think Torain fits into the same category as VH and Jarmon. VH is an older player and we just signed two expensive FAs on the interior DL. VH was expendable. Jarmon doesn't fit our scheme, he's more of a 4-3 end, not big/strong enough to play 3-4 DE, not quick/mobile enough to play LB.

Torain has value for the Skins and is certainly not useless. Not sure why you're so down on him. He's a consistent runner who can move the chains and carry the ball 18-24 times per game. He had some very nice games for us last year. Doesn't appear to have a fumbling problem. Can get in the end zone. Doesn't get tripped up by long blades of grass (sorry, had to throw in a cheap shot at Portis). He averaged 4.5 YPC and the team average was 4.2 YPC. He and Hightower are the only two backs on the roster that have over 70 carries in the NFL (KW has 65 and only carried more than six times in an NFL game twice, those two games Torain was out). Torain was 13th in the NFL in YPC.

RT needs to work very hard on pass blocking, but if a RB has the "want to" he will improve his pass blocking. It can be taught.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Torain has value for the Skins and is certainly not useless. Not sure why you're so down on him. He's a consistent runner who can move the chains and carry the ball 18-24 times per game. He had some very nice games for us last year. Doesn't appear to have a fumbling problem. Can get in the end zone. Doesn't get tripped up by long blades of grass (sorry, had to throw in a cheap shot at Portis). He averaged 4.5 YPC and the team average was 4.2 YPC. He and Hightower are the only two backs on the roster that have over 70 carries in the NFL (KW has 65 and only carried more than six times in an NFL game twice, those two games Torain was out). Torain was 13th in the NFL in YPC.

I wasn't aware that someone that loses yardage on three out of ten carries can wear the "consistent" label. That's...a really, really low bar. In fact, 100% of NFL running backs qualify as consistent. No running play is a bad running play!

Well, okay. I'll halfheartedly buy the bolded argument. I don't see him as a Top 15 to 20 back in the league, but for this Skins team, fine. Someone has to carry the ball besides Helu.

Maybe I was wrong about Hightower. I suggested that Hightower was going to force Torain off the roster. Maybe its the opposite. Hightower will play on the punt team and cover kicks and that actually saves Torain's bacon.

Not an optimal use of our personnel, but if we're more focused on Torain's YPC average than doing what it takes to win, yeah, I could see that.

[rbanerjee23]

No way...build a stable of CBs who will cover, not those who sacrifice coverage for maybe getting an INT. Samuel is old and has no upside so total pass.

[O-RaK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

If what I am hearing is correct, Asante Samuel can be had in a trade very quickly.

OK, you are the Skins' GM and you have already ascertained that you can afford Samuel under the salary cap since you would trade for him and assume the terms of that deal.

Two questions:

1. Do you try to persuade Mike Shanahan/Jim Haslett that it is worth acquiring him?

2. What price are you willing to pay Philly for Samuel?

Easy answers here. No and Nothing. Plain and simple here... we are not going to win this year. I hate to say it, but it's evident, it's not going to happen. Yes he is on the block, but Philly will not give him up easily. I don't want to mortgage our future on a 30 year old DB who tackles about as well as Los catches.