Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look

[MTK]

Ok, I let myself dwell on this whole thing for a few hours before making a post. Here's my take.

First let me preface this by saying I like Ramsey and I was really hoping for him to be the man this season. I think he's a talented QB and still has a bright future in this league.

The only thing I ask is that you clear your mind for a moment and think about this objectively. I know as fans we get very emotional and we sometimes get attached to players, whether they're good players or not. But in the end, all that matters is winning football games, and that's what Coach Gibbs is trying to do here. He's not trying to play games, he's not trying to hurt anybody's feelings, he's trying to win games, period, end of discussion.

Ok, here's my view on the change. This idea that Ramsey didn't have a fair shot this year is false. He had the commitment of the staff since the 2004 season ended. He received the majority of the offseason work as the starter, and that carried over into training camp where he took 90% of the snaps in practice. He was given 4 preseason games to stake his claim as the starter. Despite some very shaky performances, Gibbs didn't waver, he stuck with Ramsey when he very easily could have slipped Brunell in there for a start or two.

Can anyone honestly say that based on what we saw from Ramsey this preseason, that he earned the starting job. Before you answer, just think about that a moment. Did he really earn the starting job? If you say yes, please explain what he did this preseason to earn the job. I'd love to hear it.

He threw 4 INTs against 2 TDs in the preseason with a QB rating of 65, and the INTs he threw were the kind of INTs that made you say "Huh? What was he thinking?"

Meanwhile, Brunell's play in the preseason was efficient and turnover free with a QB rating just over 85. Yes it was against backups, but there was a definite improvement in his game, that can't be denied. His trademark accuracy was back, his passes showed zip, he was mobile and moving around in the pocket, and in general he seemed to have a much better feel and control of this offense. Ramsey on the other hand never looked settled or in control.

Perhaps in the end, the biggest mistake Gibbs made was sticking by Ramsey too long this preseason. Or perhaps it goes back further than that, he probably should have opened up the QB competition heading into training camp and let the best man win.

The thing that's concerned me about Ramsey is he's actually looked worse so far this year than he did at the end of last year. Perhaps now we can see why Gibbs ran such a scaled back offense last year with him in there. Perhaps that's why all we saw Ramsey throw were short dink and dunks, maybe that's all he could handle. Fast forward to this year, Gibbs opened up the playbook and look what's happened. Ramsey has the happy feet again, he's holding on to the ball too long, he's indecisive, he's throwing INTs and coughing the ball up when hit. Those are signs of a QB who's not comfortable and doesn't have a firm grip on the offense.

Again, try to take the emotion out of this. Ramsey is still a work in progress, let's face it. Will he improve with time, yeah maybe he will. But after what happened last year, I don't think Gibbs is willing to make the same mistake of sticking with a struggling QB too long.

This team has the elements to be a playoff team this year. Portis looks poised for a big year, and Betts adds a great 1-2 punch to the running attack. The offensive line is much improved over a year ago. We have speed and playmaking ability at the WR position. And needless to say the defense is lights out as expected. The missing element? Stability and efficiency at the QB position, something that Ramsey can't give us right now. You might say, but what did Ramsey do yesterday to lose the job? He shouldn't lose the job due to injury. I answer with, so we should just ignore the 2 fumbles and 1 INT in 3 series worth of work? That sure didn't help his case, that's for sure.

I'll say it again, I like Ramsey, I really do. I think he's got a good future in this league, but right now Brunell appears to be the better option at QB. Put last year out of your mind with Brunell and just focus on what we've seen from him in 2005. He's played well and gives us the best chance to win right now.

I give Gibbs credit for having the guts to make a very difficult decision, but in the end could prove to be a very smart one.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

A very good post Matty, but ultimately I disagree with you. Only time will tell who is right, but in my mind I know that Brunell is not the answer. He will likely look bad (and people will make excuses for him as they did last year until they were ready to lynch him). Brunell likely will also lead us to another losing record (and people will again shift the blame away from Brunell). I know this isn't the most optimistic post, but I'd be lying if I said that I see it any other way.

[saskin]

That was a very good post....I stick with Gibbs and whoever he chooses

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

A very good post Matty, but ultimately I disagree with you. Only time will tell who is right, but in my mind I know that Brunell is not the answer. He will likely look bad (and people will make excuses for him as they did last year until they were ready to lynch him). Brunell likely will also lead us to another losing record (and people will again shift the blame away from Brunell). I know this isn't the most optimistic post, but I'd be lying if I said that I see it any other way.

You say Brunell will look bad, based on what?

Again, forget about last year, focus on what we've seen this year.

So far this year, he's looked just fine, and Ramsey is that one that has looked bad.

Yet people are making excuses for Ramsey.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

You say Brunell will look bad, based on what?

Again, forget about last year, focus on what we've seen this year.

So far this year, he's looked just fine, and Ramsey is that one that has looked bad.

Yet people are making excuses for Ramsey.

so far he's on track for 87yards/game passing :/

I think you're point about maybe ramsey could only handle dink and dunk is a bit flawed... maybe that's all gibbs wanted to let him do, but maybe if he had more open passing he would have looked better than a screen offense. last year ramsey's last 5 games avg 20.4 points and brunell had closer to 14ppg. We'll see how it works out, but I don't think brunell gives us as good a chance.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

You say Brunell will look bad, based on what?

Again, forget about last year, focus on what we've seen this year.

So far this year, he's looked just fine, and Ramsey is that one that has looked bad.

Yet people are making excuses for Ramsey.

I agree with you on your analysis of Ramsey, as hard as that is given I've been a diehard PR fan. It probably is time for him to go, and after this I doubt he'll ever start in Washington again. Like it or not, he is completely disenchanted and wants out as soon as possible.

I don't, however, agree with your analysis of Brunell. For one, I refuse to "forget about last year." History is important and provides a pattern and precedent for the future. Can you predict with 100% accuracy based on the past? Of course not. But simply forgetting it just isn't smart.

Brunell has shown me nothing this preseason or in his backup effort Sunday. I'm willing to accept preseason as mildly helpful, but given Brunell was playing against backups, his stats are all but meaningless. He was 8/14 for 70 yards and no scores. Granted he had no INTs, but I think we need something far better than a QB who simply "doesn't make mistakes." I could probably manage to suit up, get in the game at QB and just chuck the ball to the sideline every play and "not make mistakes."

I think the ONLY argument that even remotely supports Brunell is that PERHAPS what we need is a QB who "doesn't make mistakes." Someone to hand the ball off to Portis, complete the occasional dink and dunk and simply not screw up.

Unfortunately that doesn't make a championship team. All the teams that have beenin consistent competition for the Super Bowl and consistent playoff contenders do NOT operate a system where the QB simply has to "not screw up."

If we're gonna have a glimmer of hope at making the playoffs, we need a QB who can lead, manage the offense, work with the team, and F-ING score.

Right now that's probably not Ramsey, and it sure as hell isn't Brunell.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mheisig

If we're gonna have a glimmer of hope at making the playoffs, we need a QB who can lead, manage the offense, work with the team, and F-ING score.

Right now that's probably not Ramsey, and it sure as hell isn't Brunell.

Probably not Ramsey?? How about definitely not Ramsey, and the jury is still out on Brunell.

We've seen what Ramsey can do, how about we give Brunell a shot, people are writing him off based on last year.

You say history means something, well how about looking at Brunell's entire body of work and not just an injury plagued struggle with a new team and an outdated offense.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Probably not Ramsey?? How about definitely not Ramsey, and the jury is still out on Brunell.

We've seen what Ramsey can do, how about we give Brunell a shot, people are writing him off based on last year.

You say history means something, well how about looking at Brunell's entire body of work and not just an injury plagued struggle with a new team and an outdated offense.

Ramsey isn't the one, agreed.

Brunell's entire body of work is mediocre at best. He's got a decent career passer rating of 83.9, but he's never scored more than 20 TDs in a season. The season he threw for the most yards (1996), he had 19 TDs and 20 INTs. Overall he's got 151 TDs and 92 INTs. That means that for every 1.6 touchdowns, he's lobbing it to the other team. Hardly mistake free.

Is Brunell the worst QB in the league? Of course not. He had some pretty good years in Jacksonville. Then they bounced him. All QBs have their streak - hell, look at Kurt Warner. Jacksonville dropped Brunell for a reason - Leftwich was better.

Brunell's stats last season are absolutely abysmal, his preseason was mediocre even against backups.

But hey, if the old guy can win games, that's fine with me. Put head-banging Gus Frerotte back in there if he can win games, I don't care.

Right now I have 0 faith in Brunell and his ability to lead this team to the Super Bowl, the playoffs, or even past .500. If he shows me something, I'll take it - so far I see nothing.

[Skinfomaniac]

BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!!
we seem to forget one man does not make a team, Gentelmen. (and i use that term loosely!!) Coach Gibbs is searching just like the rest of us for a answer and until they come together as a unit it will continue to Falter!! think back to Ryp and that superbowl team and tell me they didnt work as a unit, its time for all to step up and want to be The Washington Redskins!!! one of the best franchises, led by one of the best Coaches to ever coach the game!!!The right man will step up and lead us to the promise land. Whether it,s Brunell, or Ramsey, or Campbell or some other QB This is what coach means by CORE REDSKINS in the mean time we must continue to be the Greatest Fans In the NFL and stand by our Team and our Coach !!!
NUFF SAID
Hail to the Redskins
Skinfomaniac

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Skinfomaniac

BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!!
we seem to forget one man does not make a team, Gentelmen. (and i use that term loosely!!) Coach Gibbs is searching just like the rest of us for a answer and until they come together as a unit it will continue to Falter!! think back to Ryp and that superbowl team and tell me they didnt work as a unit, its time for all to step up and want to be The Washington Redskins!!! one of the best franchises, led by one of the best Coaches to ever coach the game!!!The right man will step up and lead us to the promise land. Whether it,s Brunell, or Ramsey, or Campbell or some other QB This is what coach means by CORE REDSKINS in the mean time we must continue to be the Greatest Fans In the NFL and stand by our Team and our Coach !!!
NUFF SAID
Hail to the Redskins
Skinfomaniac

duped post from another thread?

[Sociofan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This team has the elements to be a playoff team this year. Portis looks poised for a big year, and Betts adds a great 1-2 punch to the running attack. The offensive line is much improved over a year ago. We have speed and playmaking ability at the WR position. And needless to say the defense is lights out as expected. The missing element? Stability and efficiency at the QB position, something that Ramsey can't give us right now.

That's the bottom line.

Like you, I am a HUGE Patrick Ramsey fan. However, his future is not likely in Washington. Call it shell-shock. Call it loss of confidence. Call it the wrong QB for the system. He just isn't fitting into a Gibbs-coached team. All the other pieces are there for a serious playoff run, but PR just did not look like the right trigger man. Better to do this early in the season.

I have seen such tremendous improvement in this team after just one year under Gibbs. Who are we to question his methods? Let's let him give it a try. There is not a better coach out there.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Sociofan

I have seen such tremendous improvement in this team after just one year under Gibbs. Who are we to question his methods?

Easy, I'm me.

[jdlea]

Ben Roethlisberger threw no TD's, 2 picks in the preseason and looked pretty horrendous. That's why preseason games don't count. The Colts went 0 and 5 in the Preseason. The Broncos went undefeated.

I disagree that the Skins have the parts to be a playoff team because you have to be able to throw the football to win games. You can feed me that 2000 Ravens BS all you want, the Skins D doesn't score points like the Ravens did. You have to have a balance of running and passing to win in today's NFL. With Brunell the Skins don't have that, at least with Ramsey I wasn't sure.

[Paintrain]

Other than Ramsey having a bright future in the NFL, I agree with you Matty.. He may eventually become serviceable but his decision making is poor and his psyche needs a complete overhaul.. I can see him going to somewhere like Seattle or KC as a backup and growing into the position of an ok quarterback...

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Has anyone else considered how the players might be responding to Gibbs' decision. My understanding is that virtually every player preferred Ramsey to Brunell. Doesn't that say something?