Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?

[sportscurmudgeon]

Matty:

You commented that Ramsey was not necessarily the 2nd coming of Joe Montana.

Be careful here. Someone will trot out all the stats to show how Ramsey has done better in his first umpteen games than Montana, Manning, Favre, Elway and Unitas. They're lurking out there you know...

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

I'm afraid there is no breaking point for the Hall of Famer and from what I continue to read in these post, many of these so-called Redskins fans have very little faith. Gibbs said he's not going to leave here without another ring, so who am I to beleive you or him?
Never before have I seen so much carrying-on over the changing of a QB. Some act like it's the end of the world. Just two seasons ago Spurrier changed QB's like socks and it was no more than routine, nothing said, now with so many Brunell haters turning into Gibbs haters, the changing of one for another seems to be such a giant deal. It just dosen't make sense guys because neither of these QB's are going to be here in a couple years anyway, so why get all worked up about two players who aren't even going to be with the team. Real fans are warriors, they understand there are going to be up's and down's, good and bad, but everytime adversity comes you don't jump ship. That's been our number one problem since Gibbs lelf in 1992, every time we didn't have "instant" success with something or someone we jumped to change, and what have we accomplished by continuing to change? "Nothing" I hope Gibbs stays with this team until he get's it right because there is no one available who is any better. If there is, throw me out a name.

I don't think tossing gibbs or our D staff would help at all... all we need is a good QB and possibly a true #1 WR. I'm just praying we're better than last year and making steady progress. I'd like to do better than 6-10 this year.

[skins009]

I think it would take two more losing seasons. Then I think Gibbs himself would resign.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Let's not get too deep into revisionist history here. Icky Woods had a very brief career because he had a blown out knee before the days when knee-reconstructive-surgery was known. Before we dismiss him as a "one-hit-wonder", let's acknowledge that the injury bug bit him very badly.


I've been saying for about 6 months now that Joe Gibbs really never wanted Ramsey as his QB. However, now that I think about it, neither did Steve Spurrier want Ramsey as his QB. Spurrier tried to play Shane Matthews and Danny Woeful and just about anyone else who could take a snap from center and chew gum at the same time before he settled on letting Ramsey be the QB. So, that's sort of two coaches in a row who played him only after all the other choices were closed off. Might there be a message here?


paulskinsfan:

You are on target with the importance of finding good and productive players in the middle/lower rounds of the draft - and among unsigned free agents too - as the way to build a team that wins on the field and does not hyperventilate its roster every year due to salary cap constraints. That would be the weak spot in the Gibbs curriculum vitae at the moment.


offiss:

I think that the overall record of Bobby Beathard in San Diego is not that great. Yes, that one team in the mid-90s did make it to the Super Bowl playing a 5th place schedule, but other than that.

Oh yeah, the Skins eventually got one of Beatherd's guys from the Super Bowl Chargers' team to play safety for them. Who among us can forget the "new sheriff in town"?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Does anyone here think Beathard would have been trading up fo Campbell, or giving up 42 mil and a second rd pick for Brunell? I don't think so! This was a GM who drafted 3 pro bowl QB's third rd or later.

Of course Beathard was the same guy who, while with the Chargers, traded his first round pick (no. 3 overall I believe), his second-rounder, plus San Diego's No. 1 the following year, as well as wide receiver Eric Metcalf and linebacker Patrick Sapp to Arizona. All for the chance to select #2 overall and get....Ryan Leaf.

So you never know

Also, we should remember that it wasn't Beathard who developed those late rounders into Pro Bowlers. Props (or would it be Dap?) to him for finding them but he wasn't the one who necessarily made them Pro Bowl, Championship winning QBs

[Kope]

The reason there is no breaking point for me w/ Gibbs:

More than anything else we need change the culture of the Skins; to me this is done through continuity. How has Gibbs done so far? Pretty damn good in my book.

Signs of encouragement last year:

We were in every game for the first time since I can remember.

By the end of the year we were not up and down, which-team-will-show-up-this-week? type of team; we beat bad teams and lost close games to good teams - that is a real sign of a team getting better.

Signs of encouragement this year (only one game I know):

No false starts, delays of game and no holding penalties and only one illigal shift against the offense(the holding against Betts was on a punt)

The O Line gave plenty of protection and blocked with authority. YPC got bigger as the game went on.

Defense looked great again.

Special teams coverage looked great. The one guy who made a mistake is gone.

Not one aspect of the team looked worse this year than last year they all looked as good (defense), or a little bit better (Special teams offense and even QB).

Point being; we sure looked like a good team in search of a QB to lead the offense (Gibbs said something like that I think). That is head and shoulders ahead of where we were two, three and four years ago when we looked like we hardly practiced snapcounts or would beat great teams and get blown out by basement dwellers.

We are going in the right direction. Belive it. It just takes a while to instill winning in a team.

[STPainmaker]

He'd pretty much have to murder a close friend for me to want him to leave the team. However if we beat Dallas twice or won the super bowl I would be willing to make new friends.

[GoSkins!]

I'm sticking by Gibbs as long as he wants to stay because of a number of things.

1. He has assembled a great coaching staff and the players are responding better than I have seen them in years.

2. He is fixing every problem that we have had that has caused his "flawed offensive philosophy" not to work. (Turnovers, penalties).

3. I cant think of a guy with a better resume to take the job if he left.

4. A coach can't make adjustments in a game until he is familiar with his players and they understand the system.

Take for instance how New Engand switched from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 so that they could pressure the QB in thier game. You have to know your guys and they have to know you to make that kind of switch in the middle of a game.

How about our running game against the Bears? You know we didn't just keep running the same plays until they got tired? Gibbs saw the Bears were crashing the line so he went with some longer pull out blocking schemes that opened the holes up.

Bottom line is that a coach like Gibbs needs the continuity just like the players to be successful. Gibbs will do fine once he gets everyone on the same page.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by STPainmaker

He'd pretty much have to murder a close friend for me to want him to leave the team. However if we beat Dallas twice or won the super bowl I would be willing to make new friends.

Great line!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Of course Beathard was the same guy who, while with the Chargers, traded his first round pick (no. 3 overall I believe), his second-rounder, plus San Diego's No. 1 the following year, as well as wide receiver Eric Metcalf and linebacker Patrick Sapp to Arizona. All for the chance to select #2 overall and get....Ryan Leaf.

So you never know

Also, we should remember that it wasn't Beathard who developed those late rounders into Pro Bowlers. Props (or would it be Dap?) to him for finding them but he wasn't the one who necessarily made them Pro Bowl, Championship winning QBs

Excellent point there TAF I tip my cap to you!


Although the debate coming out was who was better Leaf, or Manning? And there were plenty who thought Leaf was better, but the results do speak for themselves.

As for developing QB's I agree with you 1000% I alway's said Gibbs won [other than Theisman] with mediocre QB's, he was a master at developing QB's, which is why I have to question the Campbell pick, the guy coming out is probably mid to late second rd pick, at least that was the projection, if we drafted Campbell without giving up next years draft I would be fine I really would, I just feel Gibbs throws draft picks around like they grow on trees, for talent he's severly overated.

Somewhere George Allen is smiling with his approval.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Of course Beathard was the same guy who, while with the Chargers, traded his first round pick (no. 3 overall I believe), his second-rounder, plus San Diego's No. 1 the following year, as well as wide receiver Eric Metcalf and linebacker Patrick Sapp to Arizona. All for the chance to select #2 overall and get....Ryan Leaf.

There were many, many scouts, experts, and general managers who were salivating over the possiblities of Ryan Leaf. It's not like Beathard was a lone madman hellbent on getting that malcontent buffoon while everyone else was warning against it. On lots of draft boards, Leaf was ahead of Peyton Manning.

It was a crapshoot, like the draft always is, and Beathard lost.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by offiss

Bottom line Gibbs hasen't won without Beathard but Beathard has won without Gibbs.

Gibbs won the '91 Super Bowl with Charley Casserly as the GM and Beathard was long gone.

[BigSKINBauer]

A QB change couldn't bring me to even think about taking gibbs out. In all honesty I think Gibbs would step down before I would ever ever ever want him to go. I just think consistency is what we need but if gibbs really does horrible(which i doubt he will) i think he will step down, his breaking point is probally higher than mine is.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Gibbs won the '91 Super Bowl with Charley Casserly as the GM and Beathard was long gone.

Understood but it was with a team that Beathard built.

[66skinsfan]

"We are in the midst of a crisis in Redskins Nation. Never before have I seen such in-fighting after A WIN! Its obvious that our team is in turmoil. That being said, at what point for each of you would you actually call for a coaching change?"
For me, when Sonny got benched for Kilmer, I wanted Allen to go away. But does anyone remember where the skins went that year? Gibbs demands ball control offense (we typically had the ballup to 2/3's of the game during Gibbs 1).
So starting the season with two turnovers, while Brunell looked sharp during preseason, I don't blame Gibbs for benching Ramsey. A. Brown is another visable reminder to control the ball.
Look for the rookie qb to go during garbage time.