Video of all of Ramsey's and Brunnell's passes against the Bears

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by ladyfan06

NOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MAKINGS OF A TRUE GENIUS!!

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Thank you.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Really you are underestimating Brunell. Did you WATCH last week's game? Seriously. He threw some intermediate passes and completed them when he needed to.

And about managing the game,I believe that he threw the ball away when he needed to AND showed some mobility by running out of the pocket and completing some passes.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by ladyfan06

NOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MAKINGS OF A TRUE GENIUS!!

Hallelujah! Someone actually understands Gibbs and his phenomenal strategy to beating those no good lousy tuna smelling Cowbitches. No turnover. No film footage. I can't wait.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Hallelujah! Someone actually understands Gibbs and his phenomenal strategy to beating those no good lousy tuna smelling Cowbitches. No turnover. No film footage. I can't wait.

As if parcells doesn't know every move Gibbs will make, Parcells knows Gibbs better than Gibbs knows Gibbs.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by illdefined

yeah, and he won the same amount of games as Brunell did in 9. why is Brunell held in any regard? because of his distant past (in player terms)?

do you really think the differences in preseason account for betting TWO seasons on Brunell?

We might want to add to that that 3 of Ramseys games came against 2 of the best teams in the NFL Philli, and Pitt, and a playoff team in the vik's.


As for this pre-seaon justification for Brunell, HOGWASH!

Why did Gibbs name Ramsey his starter at the end of the regular season last year? Because he clearly outplayed Brunell when the games counted, we also heard how Ramsey starated to come on the last couple of games, we heard that all off season.

So now we are to believe after the chicago game where the Gibbs apologists have conjured up the latest excuse that we only won by 2 points and scored no TD's because Gibbs wanted it that way, because he didn't want anyone to know how we are going to just overwhelm Parcells and the Boy's with a game plan against one of the greatest coaches to ever grace the field in the NFL, so to do that we leave a team in the game and we are not a big play away, we are a decent play away from losing by a field goal?

Then these same people want to judge the pre season and start Brunell, as if Gibbs opened up the offense in the pre-season only to shut it down in the regular season, we already are finding out that in a regular season game WR's are running the wrong routes, nobody believes that the same was taking place in the pre season, while everyone got used to each other as well as a new system?

Those who don't learn from their mistakes are prone to repeat them.

Brunell beats out Ramsey last season and starts 9 games and proceeds to play the position quite possibly worse than anyone in the history of the NFL for 9 games.

Ramsey comes in and faces the toughest part of our schedule and wins the starting job as per the coaches statement with his play.

Then the pre season hits and Brunell is so overwhelming with his PRE-SEASON performance Gibbs can't wait to make the switch, he proceeds to throw for 70 yds. and direct the team to 3 big time field goals in almost 3 quarters of play, now Gibbs has a gut feeling, yea I have a gut feeling as well, GUESS?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

we already are finding out that in a regular season game WR's are running the wrong routes, nobody believes that the same was taking place in the pre season, while everyone got used to each other as well as a new system?

How come whenever I, Matty, and others bring up players getting used to each other as well as a new system (and not only that, there was also an entirely new coaching staff) last season when Brunell was QB it's shot down "Oh Mark Brunell, all he does is dink and dunk, he sucks"

But then when it's Ramsey, suddenly it's all about WR's running wrong routes, players getting used to each other, new system. I don't know, I suppose if I was a genius like Ramsey allegedly is, I'd have the answer

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by illdefined

even if you take away the value of Ramsey hittin his receiver in stride or in a position to move upfield (as opposed to Brunell's "safe" dink/dunks), then that's 53 yds in 3 drives vs. 70 in 3 quarters. how many drives was that? i agree the running game got it going by then, but Ramsey didn't have that luxury.

i agree Brunell (a left-hander as Brud expertly pointed out) coming into a system set up for another QB lowered the offense's efficiency. think one week of practice can overcome months of offseason?

well, i think everything's been said thats had to be said in this mother of all arguments. i would still like some opinions (or facts even) on the above unanswered question though.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

How come whenever I, Matty, and others bring up players getting used to each other as well as a new system (and not only that, there was also an entirely new coaching staff) last season when Brunell was QB it's shot down "Oh Mark Brunell, all he does is dink and dunk, he sucks"

But then when it's Ramsey, suddenly it's all about WR's running wrong routes, players getting used to each other, new system. I don't know, I suppose if I was a genius like Ramsey allegedly is, I'd have the answer

Very simple Brunell had and I repeat 9 games [REGUALR SEASON GAMES], to gain continuity, with 11 weeks of practice as the #1 QB with his WR's and regressed as a QB, Ramsey has had 1 quarter, and was progressing within that very game before Gibbs gave him the hook.

Why is it that Ramsey isn't given the same opportunity this year as Brunell last year? It's not like Brunell is 24 years old, he is not the future, yet Ramsey is the one being treated like he's over the hill.

Anyone who wants to equate pre-seaon games with regular season games is just being foolish, no way you can simulate the game speed in the pre-season, especially under Gibbs, what did G. Williams do last off season? He put our defensive players in situations so that they would fail, yet how did that work out, we were far better in the regular season than the pre-season.

Where was Porits all pre-season? You don't think Gibbs was running plays to look at other players and evalute some the players around Ramsey, are you telling me Gibbs was coaching and creating continuity and calling the proper plays to accomplish that in the P-S, we already have people saying he's hiding our game plans in the regular season, your going to tell me he wasen't running a vanilla offense at BEST in the P-S? Your obviously entitled to your beliefs, that's more than fine by me, we are all different, but no way I am buying into it.

[Longtimefan]

Today is Thursday, and I started reading all these Ramsey Vs. Brunell post's on Monday and I'm still not finished yet. Different threads, but all the same information, some like Sonny, some like Billy and we could just go on and on and on, but I don't think Gibbs will change his mind based on what we think. The very best we can do is support whoever is behind Center and "hope" we can win some football games.

What's most confusing about listening to all the various accounts relative to Ramsey Vs. Brunell is that even a blind man could have seen this coming, that's why it shouldn't come as such a great shock to anyone. Neither was this decision based on what happened in the course of the game against the Bears on Sunday. If you have listened to Gibbs closely he stated his decision was based on the overall situation, and much of that has to do with things we don't see therefore we can't comment on. I'm throughly convinced Gibbs decision to change QB'b was not all about Ramsey's performance in Sunday's game, hence we can forget about that Ramsey didn't have a fair chance senerio. Those of us famaliar with Gibbs know it's not just about how many passes you complete or for how many yards, it's about the ability to "lead" and manage a football game.

Let's rally around whoever our QB is because if we consider ourselves true fans, we rocognize the fact they're going to need our support. When George Allen was coach here I recall at one time him making the statement and I quote "When you have two QB's you don't any" It only serves to divide the team. I pray that our team is not as divided over this as many of our posters seem to be.

[VishsSkins]

Neither ramsey or brunell looked superb in the bears game. Gibbs definitely did not base his decision to change QBs on that one game alone, so I really see no point in talking about who did better. From what I have seen in the preseason (and preseason is all we can judge them on since our offense this year is nothing like our offense last year) ramsey is capable of getting big chunks of yards by throwing the ball deep but i think everyone can agree that he is about as inconsistent as it gets. Remember the cincy game? Sure, he put up over 150yds in one half but how many point did we score with him in there? The point is that costly turnovers outweigh gaining a bunch of yardage and ramsey has always been prone to throwing ints and standing too long in the pocket, leading to a high number of sacks and even some fumbles.

Our offense is much different than it was last year and brunell has not gotten an opportunity to be a part of it. A lot of people say that the only reason brunell did good in the preseason was because he was going against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Well, wasnt he working with our 2nd and 3rd string offense too? If the argument has been made that he would have done worse had he played against 1st team defenses, isnt it logical to belive he would have done better with our first team offense? I dont know about you guys but to me, throughout the whole preseason, brunell just looked much more comfortable out there. He throws the ball with a lot more zip on it than last year and he also seems more mobile as well. What makes everyone think that he cant get the ball downfield while ramsey can? Our offensive gameplan was a lot more mellow when brunell was in there but we still moved the ball efficiently. I just think that its unfair to say that all brunell can do is "dink and dunk" while ramsey can sling it around as he pleases. That really doesnt seem like an accurate statement. I agree that ramsey was on a short leash but has he really shown that he can be a quality starter in the NFL? I am not saying that I like brunell better than ramsey but what I am saying is that we need to look at this objectively and see where gibbs is coming from. I do not think ramsey is a better QB than brunell. If gibbs feels more comfortable having brunell be his QB than brunell should be in there.

With our defense and running game, we dont need a manning, or mcnabb, or culpepper, or anyone close to that caliber. We need a QB who can manage the game, complete a high percentage of his passes, doesnt turn the ball over, and has the ability to open up the passing game when necessary. I see know reason why brunell doenst fit that description.

[VishsSkins]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Today is Thursday, and I started reading all these Ramsey Vs. Brunell post's on Monday and I'm still not finished yet. Different threads, but all the same information, some like Sonny, some like Billy and we could just go on and on and on, but I don't think Gibbs will change his mind based on what we think. The very best we can do is support whoever is behind Center and "hope" we can win some football games.

What's most confusing about listening to all the various accounts relative to Ramsey Vs. Brunell is that even a blind man could have seen this coming, that's why it shouldn't come as such a great shock to anyone. Neither was this decision based on what happened in the course of the game against the Bears on Sunday. If you have listened to Gibbs closely he stated his decision was based on the overall situation, and much of that has to do with things we don't see therefore we can't comment on. I'm throughly convinced Gibbs decision to change QB'b was not all about Ramsey's performance in Sunday's game, hence we can forget about that Ramsey didn't have a fair chance senerio. Those of us famaliar with Gibbs know it's not just about how many passes you complete or for how many yards, it's about the ability to "lead" and manage a football game.

Let's rally around whoever our QB is because if we consider ourselves true fans, we rocognize the fact they're going to need our support. When George Allen was coach here I recall at one time him making the statement and I quote "When you have two QB's you don't any" It only serves to divide the team. I pray that our team is not as divided over this as many of our posters seem to be.

I agree with you a hundred percent

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Once and for all, I'm not a Ramsey hater nor am I a Brunell lover.

The team comes above all.

I don't hold Brunell in any higher regard than I do Ramsey, but to me it seems that a lot of people are holding Ramsey in high regard or why else does everyone seem so eager to dismiss his inconcistency and turnovers while damning Brunell in the same breath. They're both pretty similar in terms of suckiness. (is that a word? I dunno sounds good though)

They both STUNK last year. But Brunell appears to be the lesser of the two evils right now.

they both stunk last year, but brunell clearly stunk more, I think that's about it.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by That Guy

they both stunk last year, but brunell clearly stunk more, I think that's about it.

Brunell was clearly the worst qb last season. He was throwing passes into the ground 5 ft in front of his recivers...he just looked AWFUL. People are worried about seeing that Mark Brunell QB our team again this year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Brunell was clearly the worst qb last season. He was throwing passes into the ground 5 ft in front of his recivers...he just looked AWFUL. People are worried about seeing that Mark Brunell QB our team again this year.

The key is last year.

People don't seem to be worried that we'll see the same Brunell this year, they seem firmly convinced they will and are giving him zero chance for improvement.

That's what I take issue with.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The key is last year.

People don't seem to be worried that we'll see the same Brunell this year, they seem firmly convinced they will and are giving him zero chance for improvement.

That's what I take issue with.

having low expectations for significant improvement in a 35 year old QB who we saw much of last season isn't unreasonable.