With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Why do I get this feeling RGIII is getting traded on draft day?

I feel that Scot McC will do the same thing the Seahawks did in the offseason before the 2012-13 season. Acquire a veteran QB and draft a project QB. He's been building up the defense and our running game has not been much of an issue (except when there is no passing game).

I just get the feeling that Gruden will get a pocket (veteran) QB for now and they'll have a project QB who Gruden can groom.

If we're going to have RG3, Mariotta, Cousins, or any young QB; we would have need to acquire free agents the same way we did for the defense. But our offense as it is right now, needs a veteran QB that can overcome our shitty line in order to not be a disaster. This is why acquiring Rivers through some trade that includes an exchange in #1 picks would make a lot of sense under these circumstances.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1980

Let me rephrase that. I don't mean they're small in a sense that they're undersized. It's just that neither one of these guys are 6'6 or 6'5 matchup nightmares. If we're going draft a guy wr at 5 he should fit that role.

No he shouldn't, if he can play he can play. Let's look at the top 5 picks from last year. Ask a tone of those teams if they would rather have Odell Beckham Jr. Right now, BPA is BPA and if we get to #5 and Scot feels that Amari Cooper is the BPA then we take him, and the way I see the draft going, I think Cooper will be the BPA at pick 5 when we are on the clock

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I take Williams. You add Williams to this DL rotation and Scott would have effectively taken it from an area of weakness to a strength.

Imagine an Okie front with Williams-Knighton-Paea or Hatcher-Paea-Williams....

Or 4 man DL sub-package Hatcher-Paea-Williams-Kerrigan

Damn! Why you playing with my emotions...Williams isn't gonna be there

This exactly why I do not want us to trade down if Williams or Fowler or Beasley is there. By adding just one one those guys along with our FA additions and key holdover veterans, completely transforms our defense. It Elevates our team by eliminating our biggest weakness, our defense.
Yes, we still have needs at OL, RB, TE and safety. But the holes are getting smaller.
I like having a GM!

[SirLK26]

Marcus Mariota's Visit With the Redskins Has Been Cancelled - Hogs Haven

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

This exactly why I do not want us to trade down if Williams or Fowler or Beasley is there. By adding just one one those guys along with our FA additions and key holdover veterans, completely transforms our defense. It Elevates our team by eliminating our biggest weakness, our defense.
Yes, we still have needs at OL, RB, TE and safety. But the holes are getting smaller.
I like having a GM!

Exactly why there is no such thing as "it's going to take years to re-build". Teams can change dramatically year to year, even crappy ones like the Skins.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Exactly why there is no such thing as "it's going to take years to re-build". Teams can change dramatically year to year, even crappy ones like the Skins.

It seems that way sometimes, like when Harbaugh took over the Niners. But I think the right players have to be in place, and it's tough to tell if that's the case except with hindsight.

We sure look like hot garbage, but so did the niners, right?

[SirLK26]

By the time Harbaugh got to San Francisco, McCloughan had been there 5 years already, rebuilding that team. They were stocked.

I'd like to see examples of teams that have had multiple losing seasons in a row and then turned right around and had multiple winning seasons in a row. I can't think of any right off the bat. We had a good year in 2012 after several bad years, but obviously that was just a mirage. Houston had a decent year this year after a 2-14 season in 2013, but they still had a lot of talent(and JJ Watt). They didn't need to be rebuilt. Same story with Indianapolis in 2012.

If you have to rebuild, it takes time.

[Defensewins]

^^ Obviously every re-building team is different, with different circumstances:
- returning talent/veterans
- Salary Cap Space and what they will really spend. Not always the same for every team, some teams are cheap.
- Available FA's in a given year
- And the biggest variable is the GM/FO/Coaching staff's skills in finding talent, developing talent and spending money on FA's wisely.

To many variables to be able to paint with a broad brush.

Clearly the true measure of a team is on the field results and we are still months away from seeing anything. But I must say I like what we have done so far this off season.
Last off season our prior FO rather unwisely spent most of available cap space on Orakpo (terrible move), DeSean Jackson (WR not area of biggets need) and Offensive Guard Lavaou who did not impress that much.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

By the time Harbaugh got to San Francisco, McCloughan had been there 5 years already, rebuilding that team. They were stocked.

You really need the right GM and the right HC to win. Before Harbaugh arrived in S.F., they had the right GM but they didn't have the right HC.

Let's hope that we have the right GM and HC in place and that they will be allowed to stick around long enough for us to turn the corner. Rebuilding requires ownership to stay the course, as well.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

This exactly why I do not want us to trade down if Williams or Fowler or Beasley is there. By adding just one one those guys along with our FA additions and key holdover veterans, completely transforms our defense. It Elevates our team by eliminating our biggest weakness, our defense.
Yes, we still have needs at OL, RB, TE and safety. But the holes are getting smaller. ...I like having a GM!

Having a real GM is a treat. In Scott's first season he's already addressing the whole in the defense that the previous regime couldn't during their entire tenure (which ultimately got them fired).

Trading down sounds nice in theory except you need someone to trade up and more importantly what happens if you trade down and all the prospect you expected to be there are all gone? Then trading down doesn't look so great.

But I agree with you if Williams, Fowler (although I wouldn't go edge rusher that early) or Cooper are there you don't trade down.

[redskinsfan1980]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

No he shouldn't, if he can play he can play. Let's look at the top 5 picks from last year. Ask a tone of those teams if they would rather have Odell Beckham Jr. Right now, BPA is BPA and if we get to #5 and Scot feels that Amari Cooper is the BPA then we take him, and the way I see the draft going, I think Cooper will be the BPA at pick 5 when we are on the clock

We already have wrs that fit the mole of the Odell Beckham Jr. We need size at wr. If you can't see that then you don't know enough about football to even be having this conversation with me. This team don't need another wr. We need something that we didn't have last year and that's a pass rush.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1980

We already have wrs that fit the mole of the Odell Beckham Jr. We need size at wr. If you can't see that then you don't know enough about football to even be having this conversation with me. This team don't need another wr. We need something that we didn't have last year and that's a pass rush.

First off, Cooper is 6' 1"/211 lbs. Plenty of size.

As to your main point, however, I have said it before, passing on a guy you believe to be the BPA b/c he doesn't fit an immediate need is the definition of short term thinking and what has gotten this franchise into so much trouble in the past. If Scot McC thinks Cooper is the clear cut BPA at 5, he should take him. If - and only if - it's a toss-up to Scot McC as to who is the BPA between Cooper and Fowler/Beasley, sure, then need plays a part.

Yes. We have an immediate need for pass-rushers. Betting on a rookie - even the 5 pick - to resolve that need is pretty damn risky. Particularly when all of the prospective pass rushers are flawed in some way and there is no clear "I am the guy" at the position and, instead, three or four "I may be The Guy but I may be a bust" players at the position.

However, we also have a long term need for the best football players we can get at every position. Betting on finding one of those by picking the BPA - regardless of position - at the 5 pick is as close to a gimme as you can get in the draft process.

Build for the long term, become a solid team, then take some risks.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1980

We already have wrs that fit the mole of the Odell Beckham Jr. We need size at wr. If you can't see that then you don't know enough about football to even be having this conversation with me. This team don't need another wr. We need something that we didn't have last year and that's a pass rush.

Ahhh the ole need vs BPA question.

I think there is a case that not only is Cooper possible BPA he also fills a critical need both short term and long term.

Coop is a complete WR unlike DeSean who is one of the best deep threat but doesn't run a complete route tree or Garcon who is a great after the catch and a great blocker but doesn't consistently 'win' in man to man or achieve clear separation with his routes.

...Oh and in the immediate long term as early as next year Garcon and maybe even DeSean could be gone.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

First off, Cooper is 6' 1"/211 lbs. Plenty of size.

As to your main point, however, I have said it before, passing on a guy you believe to be the BPA b/c he doesn't fit an immediate need is the definition of short term thinking and what has gotten this franchise into so much trouble in the past. If Scot McC thinks Cooper is the clear cut BPA at 5, he should take him. If - and only if - it's a toss-up to Scot McC as to who is the BPA between Cooper and Fowler/Beasley, sure, then need plays a part.

Yes. We have an immediate need for pass-rushers. Betting on a rookie - even the 5 pick - to resolve that need is pretty damn risky. Particularly when all of the prospective pass rushers are flawed in some way and there is no clear "I am the guy" at the position and, instead, three or four "I may be The Guy but I may be a bust" players at the position.
However, we also have a long term need for the best football players we can get at every position. Betting on finding one of those by picking the BPA - regardless of position - at the 5 pick is as close to a gimme as you can get in the draft process.

Build for the long term, become a solid team, then take some risks.

I agree...McC should take BPA, if he thinks that is Cooper and he is there at #5 then so be it. In the end it's all a crap shoot anyway, I think we should try the BPA this go around..Remember when we need WR's during the Vinny era and his first 3 picks that year were Devin Thomas, Kelly and Fred Davis didn't work out so well.

[JoeRedskin]

Here is one of Kiper's breakdown of the top five (assuming no trades):

1. TBay - Winston
2. Tenn - Mariotta
3. Jax - Williams
4. Oak - Cooper
5. Wash - Fowler

Say Fowler goes to Jax, as some project, and, similarly, Oakland goes with White over Cooper. Who do you pick at 5? Williams, Cooper or Beasley.

Personally, based on everything I have read about it, Williams is the BPA of the draft and he fits a need so it's a no brainer to me.

On the other hand, if its Cooper, Fowler and Beasley, that's just a tough call given the immediate needs of the team, Fowler and Beasley's lack of "sure thing"edness, and Cooper's guaranteed (as guaranteed as a draft pick can be) high floor. (Every talking head and analyst says all this guy's comparable's are perennial pro bowler/HOFer's - like Williams, he appears to be about as close to a sure thing as you can get in the draft).

Confronted by the Cooper/Fowler/Beasley conundrum, I defer to Scot McC and will not give him crap no matter whom he picks.