All Arrington All The Time (Mega Merge Club Mix)

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm really torn here.

On one hand you have LaVar's monster contract. If we could get out from under that, it will really help clear up our long term cap situation. Is he really worth his contract? I guess the argument could easily be made that he's not, since we've seen the defense play so well without him.

On the other hand, LaVar is one of my favorite players and it would really stink to see him go elsewhere.

Keeping emotions out of it, I'm in favor of getting rid of his contract, even if it means one of my favorite players playing for someone else next year.

On a related note, if LaVar goes, I'm officially DONE with buying authentic jerseys of current players. I thought LaVar was the safest bet, and a year later my jersey is in danger of being yet another ex-player jersey. Honestly, if it wasn't for that jersey I might not really mind as much if he's outta here!

On the issue of Lavar and money. He like many others is a favorite of mine. However, he is going to cost us in the area of 10M to keep in 2006? Is anybody worth that? When that contract was negotiated, obviously nobody expected it to come to fruition. They are re-negotiated and restructured, blah, blah. With the scuffle over the vanishing 6.5M in the contract, lack of playing time, etc. He will probably not be in a negotiable humor. He may tell us to stick-it with regard to re-structure (if we are so-inclined). At that point, if not before the Skins will be looking to deal, if possible benifit exists by doing so.

[12thMan]

Can or will we do it before the trade deadline though??

[#56fanatic]

If LaVar is so overrated, how do you explain 3 straight pro-bowls? The man is a competitor that bring 100% every play, every series, every quarter! He is loyal and is a good man. Isn't that the kind of person you want on your team? He is a class act. The man has never had to opportunity to be on the field with this coaching staff. A few preseason games last year. Remember the Atlanta game, when he played, he was all over the field, in Vicks face, caused a fumble, caused and INT, and forced Vick to throw a couple more out of bounds. LaVar was the reason Vick was taken out of the game. They can not possible have a "true read" on LaVar on how he would play in this system. If they are looking at film from Spurriers last year, when the D was bottom 5 in the league, he was trying to do too much, and make something happen. But when you are that bad who could fault him for trying to make a play. In this D, the plays come to the players, thats why Pierce, Marshall and Clark are all stepping up. Put these players(for the exception of Pierce,maybe) on other teams and they are average players. LaVar deserves to be playing for all he has done and agreed to do for this organization. This would be a good time for Danny to express his opinion, you know he wants LaVar on the field. I mean, LaVar was the face of the Redskins for the 5 years, Darrell Green annointed him the next "TRUE REDSKINS"

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

12th Man/FRPLG:

I don't know why Arrington is not on the field; only Gibbs and Willliams know that.

Last year, the Redskins defense was really, really good, LaVar Arrington contributed next to nothing to their being really, really good. So, the coaching staff has some reason to suspect that they can have a really, really good defense on the field with LaVar Arrington on the sidelines or in the owners' box or at Redskins' Park or in Lower Slobbovia. They already did that last year.

Now it is 2005. Warrick Holdman played well in the exhibition games and LaVar Arrington's knee required him to ease on through some of the workouts. So, it's time to name a starting unit and Gibbs and Williams sit down to make up the first string. Remember, Gibbs wears the hat of Coach Gibbs and also the hat of President of Football Operations Gibbs.

IF Williams tells Gibbs that Williams believes that the defense will be just fine with Holdman at starting LB, let's IMAGINE what Joe Gibbs does. Remember, this is IMAGINATION because we cannot read minds. And remember, the premise here is that Williams believes that the defense is perfectly OK with Holdman in the starting line-up and Arrington playing only a little bit.

Gibbs has two choices; he can tell Williams that he wants Arrington on the field or he can go along with Williams.

Choice #1 - Overrule Willliams and put LaVar on the starting unit:

Pro: You get a physically gifted football player out there on the field.
You "get your money's worth" from your highest plaid player.

Con: You will have a less than fully happy Defensive Coordinator if you overrule him.
You will have to pay Arrington even more money if he achieves the incentive levels in his contract.
You may put Arrington a year closer to leaving the team as a free agent if he plays and plays really well.


Choice #2 - Go along with the recommendation of Defensive Coordinator

Pro: Happier coaching staff
You have one hell of a guy on the bench to provide a "shot in the arm" for the defense if they ever falter.
You can sit back and see how the season unfolds. If the defense is strong, you just let things keep on keeping on; if they hit a rough spot, you can be the guy who "makes the tough call" and insert Arrington into the lineup.

Con: You have to listen to media gurus like Doc Walker and Al Koken wonder why all this is happening.


So, if you were Joe Gibbs and you got that recommendation from Gregg Williams, what would you have done?

Reply #56 fanatic -
Joe is the head coach, Williams is the "assistant head coach" This is what Joe get paid to do, make those kinds of decisions. When Greg Williams said they didn't need Trotter, albeit Pierce stepped in and played very well, what did Joe say about Trotter, "well we were wrong there, Trotter is a very good player!" If Joe feels LaVar should be on the field, then Joe has the right to make that decision and if it fails, then it fails. LaVar is a superior athlete to any LB we have on the roster, and would make a really really good defense that much better. A true playmaker in every sense of the word!!

[Kope]

For me this goes back to trusting the coaches- Like Matty I am torn as LaVar is one of my favorite Skins, but there must be something else going on.

This is the way I see it:

Lavar has to know the defense by now, but he is not forcing the coaches to play him.

This means to me one of two things-

1. There is a petty personal grude here and the coaches are hamstringing LaVar on purpose.

2. LaVar is not executing with in the system to the point where we are better with him on the field.

I have to believe # 2, I just can't see Williams/Gibbs/Lindsay all agreeing to put an their agenda above the team- above all Gibbs wants to win and he has worked through strong personalities before. There is no rumbleing from teammates, no disention in the lockerroom, that says the players either see "it" as well or trust the coaches more than LaVar. I dont know what is going on but with an athlete of LaVar's caliber there has to be something.

I would rather he stays (meaning plays and produces) but we can't pay that kind of cash for a guy who dosent see the field- for what ever reason.

The only thing good out of this whole mess is both side are keeping it in house. What a change that is.

[MTK]

Call me crazy and a blind loyalist, but I'm trusting our coaches on this one.

As much as I love LaVar, if Williams and co. feel that LaVar doesn't fit in to the mix, I'm going to defer to their judgement and trust the decision.

We had the #3 overall D last year and so far this year we're #5 all without LaVar. Seems to me that the guys running the ship have a firm grasp on what they're doing.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

If LaVar is so overrated, how do you explain 3 straight pro-bowls? The man is a competitor that bring 100% every play, every series, every quarter! He is loyal and is a good man. Isn't that the kind of person you want on your team? He is a class act. The man has never had to opportunity to be on the field with this coaching staff. A few preseason games last year. Remember the Atlanta game, when he played, he was all over the field, in Vicks face, caused a fumble, caused and INT, and forced Vick to throw a couple more out of bounds. LaVar was the reason Vick was taken out of the game. They can not possible have a "true read" on LaVar on how he would play in this system. If they are looking at film from Spurriers last year, when the D was bottom 5 in the league, he was trying to do too much, and make something happen. But when you are that bad who could fault him for trying to make a play. In this D, the plays come to the players, thats why Pierce, Marshall and Clark are all stepping up. Put these players(for the exception of Pierce,maybe) on other teams and they are average players. LaVar deserves to be playing for all he has done and agreed to do for this organization. This would be a good time for Danny to express his opinion, you know he wants LaVar on the field. I mean, LaVar was the face of the Redskins for the 5 years, Darrell Green annointed him the next "TRUE REDSKINS"

I agree with most, if not all of what you're saying here. First of all, I don't think LaVar is overated, per se. However, is his current value to the team contractually and athletically worth $10 million?? That's the big question my friend. Yes, unfortunately this is the business side of it. I think when you hear people say, LaVar is overated perhaps they are saying that in terms of how much we are paying him and how well our defense has done without him how can we justify keeping him on the roster.

I really don't think anyone questions his athletic prowess or ability to be an outstanding Pro-Bowl linebacker. But I do think what the Redskins are now asking themselves, especially with the direction the team is taking on being financially responsible, are both parties better off without each other??

Again, LaVar is a great talent and has done a lot of great things for this team and this city but maybe, just maybe it won't be a bad thing if we can deal him somewhere else.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I agree with most, if not all of what you're saying here. First of all, I don't think LaVar is overated, per se. However, is his current value to the team contractually and athletically worth $10 million?? That's the big question my friend. Yes, unfortunately this is the business side of it. I think when you hear people say, LaVar is overated perhaps they are saying that in terms of how much we are paying him and how well our defense has done without him how can we justify keeping him on the roster.

I really don't think anyone questions his athletic prowess or ability to be an outstanding Pro-Bowl linebacker. But I do think what the Redskins are now asking themselves, especially with the direction the team is taking on being financially responsible, are both parties better off without each other??

Again, LaVar is a great talent and has done a lot of great things for this team and this city but maybe, just maybe it won't be a bad thing if we can deal him somewhere else.

good post I agree

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Reply #56 fanatic -
LaVar is a superior athlete to any LB we have on the roster, and would make a really really good defense that much better. A true playmaker in every sense of the word!!

Right on!!!!!!

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

I love the skins winning but I detect the distinct odor of bs surrounding the Arrington situation cuz there is absolutely no way holdman or clemons or even the 2 combined can match the playmaking ability of Arrington. The guys on the Comcast post game show they were mentioning that Holdman's name hadn't even been mentioned during the game and almost never seems to be around the ball and looking back at a lot of the footage they're right. This just seems like it's gonna get worse before it gets better but I hope I'm wrong.

You have got that right!! Those two, Holdman and Clemons, do not have the ability that LaVar does. Nothing against those two. Holdman, in his days with Chicago was one of the better linebackers, but neither of the two have the speed, strength, and outright FIRE! to play to the ability of LaVar. Like I said in a previous responce to someone, in this defense, the plays come to you when you are this aggressive. This scheme fits LaVar. Williams and Gibbs were so excited to have LaVar playing in this scheme. Williams said he couldn't wait to see what LaVar was going to do. He would be a probowler every year. Something is going on that nobody knows about, only players and coaches. Where is Danny when you need him? I know he wants LaVar on the field, but he is in no way going to step on Joes toes!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

You have got that right!! Those two, Holdman and Clemons, do not have the ability that LaVar does. Nothing against those two. Holdman, in his days with Chicago was one of the better linebackers, but neither of the two have the speed, strength, and outright FIRE! to play to the ability of LaVar. Like I said in a previous responce to someone, in this defense, the plays come to you when you are this aggressive. This scheme fits LaVar. Williams and Gibbs were so excited to have LaVar playing in this scheme. Williams said he couldn't wait to see what LaVar was going to do. He would be a probowler every year. Something is going on that nobody knows about, only players and coaches. Where is Danny when you need him? I know he wants LaVar on the field, but he is in no way going to step on Joes toes!

Again, I don't think there is any question that LaVar is one of the most talented players we have, BUT is he worth his monster contract??

That's what it appears this is all boiling down to.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

If LaVar is so overrated, how do you explain 3 straight pro-bowls? The man is a competitor that bring 100% every play, every series, every quarter! He is loyal and is a good man. Isn't that the kind of person you want on your team? He is a class act. The man has never had to opportunity to be on the field with this coaching staff. A few preseason games last year. Remember the Atlanta game, when he played, he was all over the field, in Vicks face, caused a fumble, caused and INT, and forced Vick to throw a couple more out of bounds. LaVar was the reason Vick was taken out of the game. They can not possible have a "true read" on LaVar on how he would play in this system. If they are looking at film from Spurriers last year, when the D was bottom 5 in the league, he was trying to do too much, and make something happen. But when you are that bad who could fault him for trying to make a play. In this D, the plays come to the players, thats why Pierce, Marshall and Clark are all stepping up. Put these players(for the exception of Pierce,maybe) on other teams and they are average players. LaVar deserves to be playing for all he has done and agreed to do for this organization. This would be a good time for Danny to express his opinion, you know he wants LaVar on the field. I mean, LaVar was the face of the Redskins for the 5 years, Darrell Green annointed him the next "TRUE REDSKINS"

I forgot to add 56: I agree we have a some overachievers on our defense. Thanks to Gregg Williams and his staff. But I will disagree that most are average players. It could be argued that many NFL teams, forget about the NFC, many NFL teams would love to have: C.Griffin, Sean Taylor, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Carlos Rogers down the road, hell I'll even throw in Joe Salave'a. No he's no super star, but he plays great within the system, and I would say could compliment most DTs very well in the league right now. That's more than half of the defense.

In my opinion, every team has about half dozen or so players on either side of the ball that are products of good coaching and the "system", if you will. Jeremiah Trotter is a very good example of someone who is a Pro Bowler with the right team.

So while you say that we have average players, in that case who doesn't??

[diehardskin2982]

This whole Lavar "doesn't fit in" shit is totaly false. I say this because I remember last year in the preseason game agianst the Falcons, he had a monster game and Williams put him in the right position to do very well.
I think it's more of what I said in an earlier post about Snyder, or that Arrington is a victom of his own attitude. When u see him on the sideline he is isolated and not looking over schemes or talking with Williams at all. Maybe he is isolating himself out of a job

[#56fanatic]

He is getting paid what Danny agreed to pay him. there was no negotiation. If someone wanted to pay you 10 million to pick up trash, would you do it? right! What I was reading earlier, they could take to roster bonus, make it guaranteed money and stretch it over the length of the contract. Making the amount a little smaller per year. We are eventually going to come to this problem with all the big names we have on our team. Portis, will have the same problems in the next couple of years. Springs signed a big deal for a guy 30 years old. Was spings worth a 10 million signing bonus? Is any of these guys "worth" all the money they get paid. What I am saying is, once in a blue moon does a guy with the athletic ability, the on the field and off the field persona of a LaVar Arrington come along. He loves the fans and basically was going to let the 6.5 million dispute go away, but the Players union wouldn't let it. He said last year if Dan Snyder and the Redskins ever decide to let him go or say they wanted to trade him he would retire. He does not want to wear another uniform, he want to be a redskins for LIFE. In todays world of sports, that is a very refreshing statement and one that sticks with me when i hear these guys demaning trades, demanding contract extensions, release me all this crap. LaVar is "THE MAN!!!"

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by offiss

Pretty much nailed it D.

WAY OFF DUDE!! dont you remember the way the organization hyped him up when they drafted him. The next LT, the next great thing. Dont you remember the LA thing, the #56 jersey they gave him on the draft stage. This is what they wanted him to be. Now all of the sudden, this is the wrong way to be. He is a team guy and will do anything they ask. If he goes to another team, the Redskins are making a mistake beyond measurement.