Can We Bench Brunell Now

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

For all the lock-step Brunell defenders, I keep asking these questions: Is the O-line playing horribly, so much so that Brunell has no chance to find the open receiver? When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley and Lloyd suddenly forget how to separate from their defenders? If not, then what's the common denominator here?

Although, I'm hardly a lock-step Brunell defender, I pretty much take the role of one on a board so damn quick to heap blame on the guy.

Is the OLine playing horribly? No. When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? No. Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and Lloyd suddenly forget how to seperate from their defenders? It seems like it sometimes, but I don't think this is the case.

So what's the common denominator? Well, outside of simply philosophy transition issues we are having (Gibbs to Saunders) that are costing us in crucial situations, I'd say...get ready to be blown away...

THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM!

Where did you honestly expect this offense to rank preseason? Going into this week, we were the 7th ranked offense by Football Outsider's DVOA statistic. 7/32. That's top quarter. By the same statistic, our D ranks 23. Could we be higher than 7th with Peyton instead of Brunell? Probably. But I mean, c'mon. Did you really, really expect our offense to be top 3 this season simply because we added some different WRs? I didn't. Now ask yourself this one. Did you expect the D to be in the top 10? How about top 20? top 25?

I'm not picking on Beemnseven here. But as a whole, get real!

Remember, as bad as you think you have it with Mark Brunell, about 15 teams have worse QB situations. (That's about half the league)

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

The problem GTripp is that, outside of the Texans and Jacksonville games, our offense (including Brunell) has looked average to horrible. Look at our team stats, Brunell's stats, etc.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

The problem GTripp is that, outside of the Texans and Jacksonville games, our offense (including Brunell) has looked average to horrible. Look at our team stats, Brunell's stats, etc.

I think this is the best possible counterpoint against my arguement. Inconsistency is a problem. But I pretty much scratch the Dallas game due to a lack of Portis. Brunell was better than average vs the Giants and pretty good against the Vikings. His stats weren't so hot this week, but I believe he did what he needed to do to have us win. No more, no less.

Inconsistency is a leaguewide issue. It's the nature of the league, and the nature of our offense. Going with Campbell instead of Brunell isn't going to solve ANY problems. Brunell has "struggled" through a 0.5 INT/Game season so far. I can't imagine Campbell would be anywhere near that low. QB rating (shitty stat, IMO) aside, 4/6 of Mark's games look pretty good to me on paper, and the other two I think are subpar performances, but once in which he avoided the game-changing mistake.

If you can keep your QB between great and average week in and week out, I think inconsistency is acceptable.

Fix the defense. That's not even inconsistent, that's just bad.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Brunell had a QB rating of 68 and threw for 109 yards against the G-men. I would hardly call that "better than average."

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Although, I'm hardly a lock-step Brunell defender, I pretty much take the role of one on a board so damn quick to heap blame on the guy.

Is the OLine playing horribly? No. When the team commits to the run, are they having problems running? No. Did Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and Lloyd suddenly forget how to seperate from their defenders? It seems like it sometimes, but I don't think this is the case.

So what's the common denominator? Well, outside of simply philosophy transition issues we are having (Gibbs to Saunders) that are costing us in crucial situations, I'd say...get ready to be blown away...

THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM!

Where did you honestly expect this offense to rank preseason? Going into this week, we were the 7th ranked offense by Football Outsider's DVOA statistic. 7/32. That's top quarter. By the same statistic, our D ranks 23. Could we be higher than 7th with Peyton instead of Brunell? Probably. But I mean, c'mon. Did you really, really expect our offense to be top 3 this season simply because we added some different WRs? I didn't. Now ask yourself this one. Did you expect the D to be in the top 10? How about top 20? top 25?

I'm not picking on Beemnseven here. But as a whole, get real!

Remember, as bad as you think you have it with Mark Brunell, about 15 teams have worse QB situations. (That's about half the league)

I agree that Brunell isn't the one problem. The question is would replacing him serve as a panacea (for lack of a better word) for the fans and the team. I mean, let's say you replace Brunell and Holdman with Campbell and Rocky. Rocky finishes with 2 sacks and a forced fumble that Vincent (who also has an INT in the game) picks ups and runs in for what proves to be the winning touchdown. Campbell meanwhile finishes 11-23 for 112 yards 0 TDs and 2 INTs. I'm sure most fans are going to look to starting JC as being the difference. Would the team react the same way? I'm inclined to say no, but who knows.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Brunell had a QB rating of 68 and threw for 109 yards against the G-men. I would hardly call that "better than average."

He was 12/22, and we had the ball in that game for something redick like 20 mins or less. 5.0 Yards Per Attempt is pretty average. 55% completion is below my expectations for Brunell. But the road division game against a team coming off the bye with something to prove...that defense was insane that day. So I guess better than average is just my opinion. But anyway, 12/22 109 and 0 ints is nothing to get all upset over. Just a microchoism of the dominance of the Giants that day. Espicially the 22.

QB Rating is a dumb stat, IMO.

[jsarno]

Brunell IS A HUGE PROBLEM! For all you stat heads out there, if you take away his screen passes (at this point we may have broke the season record for screen passes already), and how would Brunell's passer rating / comp % be? I would wager HORRIBLE.
He is afraid to open up the field and throw it downfield, and when the time comes that he has to do it, well I refer you to the game ending int when the whole titans team was sitting there waiting.
So I say, since this season is pretty much a lost cause, might as well start Campbell.

On a side note, the defense is horrendous...what is Williams doing? Then again, when you get next to nothing for penetration, and cb's acting like they are afraid of the ball, can we really blame Williams?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Brunell IS A HUGE PROBLEM! For all you stat heads out there, if you take away his screen passes (at this point we may have broke the season record for screen passes already), and how would Brunell's passer rating / comp % be? I would wager HORRIBLE.
He is afraid to open up the field and throw it downfield, and when the time comes that he has to do it, well I refer you to the game ending int when the whole titans team was sitting there waiting.
So I say, since this season is pretty much a lost cause, might as well start Campbell.

On a side note, the defense is horrendous...what is Williams doing? Then again, when you get next to nothing for penetration, and cb's acting like they are afraid of the ball, can we really blame Williams?

You know what team never throws screen passes and only goes downfield and refuses to take what the defense gives them? Oakland! Also, how can you blame the QB for the playcalling of screen passes (assuming that there was a problem, which there isnt). You get a penalty for throwing a deep route on a designed screen. It's called "illegal man downfield"!

So yeah, if you took any QB in the league and removed all the screens and the wide open passes and all successful plays that weren't deep bombs (ya know like the one he threw to Lloyd after he broke through his wall of "fear"), you'd end up with the Oakland offense. Congrats.

BRUNELL IS TEH SUXZ0RS!! BRING IN AARON BROOKS!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

THERE REALLY ISN'T AN OFFENSIVE PROBLEM!

... Where did you honestly expect this offense to rank preseason? Did you really, really expect our offense to be top 3 this season simply because we added some different WRs? I didn't.

The only area where I see legitimate concern is consistency with the O-line. Sometimes they give Brunell plenty of time, other times, he's running for his life -- especially against Dallas and the Giants. I'd say 60 - 70% of the time (pure guess, no actual mathematics involved), the quarterback is getting adequate protection. Would that be a fair estimate?

And no, adding different wideouts wasn't supposed to turn us into the Colts, but I think there were reasonable expectations of gradual progress by Week 5. Instead, they're taking giant leaps backward. That leads me to the common denominator -- if they are getting open, and Brunell is getting adequate protection most of the time, then what's the problem? Add this in with the fact that when the team and coaches commit to it, they can run the ball when they want to assuming Portis is healthy.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Now ask yourself this one. Did you expect the D to be in the top 10? How about top 20? top 25?

I'm not picking on Beemnseven here. But as a whole, get real!

Believe it or not, the tailspin we've seen from the defense doesn't surprise me. I think Williams has milked as much as he can from the group he's had since '04, and without any significant effort to maintain or add to it, i.e. help at DT, DE, and secondary, these results were bound to happen.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Remember, as bad as you think you have it with Mark Brunell, about 15 teams have worse QB situations. (That's about half the league)

Maybe so. But we weren't supposed to be one of those 15 teams this year. We were supposed to build from last year's playoff run and take a serious shot at the Super Bowl. The fact that there are other bad teams out there with quarterback problems of their own doesn't help us.

Leadership and playmakers at the quarterback position is what separates winners from losers in football, college and pro.

Until things change, this team will be a loser in '06.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You know what team never throws screen passes and only goes downfield and refuses to take what the defense gives them? Oakland! Also, how can you blame the QB for the playcalling of screen passes (assuming that there was a problem, which there isnt). You get a penalty for throwing a deep route on a designed screen. It's called "illegal man downfield"!

So yeah, if you took any QB in the league and removed all the screens and the wide open passes and all successful plays that weren't deep bombs (ya know like the one he threw to Lloyd after he broke through his wall of "fear"), you'd end up with the Oakland offense. Congrats.

BRUNELL IS TEH SUXZ0RS!! BRING IN AARON BROOKS!

Wow, so you really think Brunell is our answer? You think the defense only gives us screen passes? I guess our offense really does suck if all you're going to do is "take what the defense gives us". You need to TAKE the yards and be aggressive, not sit back and hope.
There are a lot of people here thinking screens are great, but if you are familiar with Saunders offensive systems, he opens the field and throws a lot of crossing routes downfield. Why are our Skins not doing this? Has Saunders gone soft, or Brunell have no balls? (I choose the latter)

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

The one thing that has to stop right now is comparing Brunell to Manning. There is no compairson. One a elite quarterback and one a average quarterback on his good day.Yes this offense would be in the top five or top three with manning. Manning would spread the ball around to more than one wide reciever [moss] and use all his weapons like lloyd,randle el and cooley. Also wouldnt underthrow open recievers down field all the time.

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

Brunell or Manning,mcnabb,brees,delhomme,vick,grossman,farve, kitna,johnson,smith, bulger,hassleback,bledsoe. And the new guy in tampa. Hard to pick Brunell over more than two of these quarterbacks in the NFC

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

Brunell or brady,pennington,losman,culpepper,harrington,roeth lisberger,palmer,mcnair,bolier/young,rivers,huard,green,plummer,frye,manning,left wich,carr. You would on take brunell over about two or three here so lets be real we have one of the worst qb's in the NFL>

[Maybe Next Year]

Brunell is definitely a big problem, and probably the biggest one this year, but there has to be something wrong with the 2-million dollar man, Al Saunders. Either his "700+ page playbook" has about 680 pages of 5-yard passes, or he doesnt have the confidence, along with the rest of the Redskins fans, to be creative and tell Brunell to mix up his passes and throw deep. I say put in Campbell against Indy, and tell him not to be afraid to throw deep. He surely has the arm to do it, and what do you have to lose when our season is slowly slipping down the gutter. Even if Campbell over throws on some passes, throwing deep will make the defence actually respect the pass, and allow CP to break some good-sized runs for us.

[CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR]

Season over all ready lets see what the kid has. Have to see if he can play for next year.