Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

wasn't bin laden part of al quaeda that the united states armed to try and take out Afghanistan? i wonder who was president then?

I had never heard that we gave arms to Al Quaeda.

[dmek25]

somewhere along the way, the united states has forgotten how to fight a war. in war, there will be death and injury. to those who deserve, and the undeserving. trying to keep the undeserving out of it, as much as possible, and basically destroying anything , or anyone that stands in our way. we are way too worried about offending, to fight effectively. we are also way to interested in ground fighting. if someone wants to pick a fight with us, lets show them why we are the only superpower. we should have bombed bin laden, or at least until he was handed over. that would have opened the worlds eyes. not this pussyfooting around we are doing in iraq right now

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I had never heard that we gave arms to Al Quaeda.

back when russia rolled into afghanstan and basically got their asses handed to them

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by dmek25

back when russia rolled into afghanstan and basically got their asses handed to them

A little off topic, but one of the most shocking things I have ever seen. A video ran on the news in the early stages of the war. It shows two Afghans literally standing next to their camels in a mountaneous region in Afghanistan. Next scene two Russian Migs come over the mountains in the distance. The announcer states that each one costs Mother Russia 30m. Then he says we are supplying arms to the rebel forces. These two guys each shoulder a hand held "surface to air" missile launcher costing abolut $1000 each. they both lock up and fire. Bingo! 60m in Russian hardware are shot down for 2 g's. It was amazing

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by dmek25

somewhere along the way, the united states has forgotten how to fight a war. in war, there will be death and injury. to those who deserve, and the undeserving. trying to keep the undeserving out of it, as much as possible, and basically destroying anything , or anyone that stands in our way. we are way too worried about offending, to fight effectively. we are also way to interested in ground fighting. if someone wants to pick a fight with us, lets show them why we are the only superpower. we should have bombed bin laden, or at least until he was handed over. that would have opened the worlds eyes. not this pussyfooting around we are doing in iraq right now

real-time media happened, vietnam happened. things change.

[Hog1]

Dmec's correct though, if your fighting a war, fight it! if your worried about politcal correctness, go home. We afford our enemies many luxuries they do not give us, beheading's, torture, etc

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Hog1

We afford our enemies many luxuries they do not give us, beheading's, torture, etc

well, at least we don't behead them.

but in korea, we couldn't "just fight the war" unless we wanted to invade china (which, by the way, would be totally impossible and unwinnable). Our armed forces aren't as big as they used to be and we can't afford and are not capable of taking on all comers.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

somewhere along the way, the united states has forgotten how to fight a war. in war, there will be death and injury. to those who deserve, and the undeserving. trying to keep the undeserving out of it, as much as possible, and basically destroying anything , or anyone that stands in our way. we are way too worried about offending, to fight effectively. we are also way to interested in ground fighting. if someone wants to pick a fight with us, lets show them why we are the only superpower. we should have bombed bin laden, or at least until he was handed over. that would have opened the worlds eyes. not this pussyfooting around we are doing in iraq right now

Its not that we do not know how to fight a war look at how fast we moved in to Iraq and look at the first Iraq war. The problem is that they are not an army we are fighting and they only attack from a distance while hiding behind women and children. Everytime we have engaged them in a battle we have distroyed them and thats why they hide among the people of Iraq. I agree with you that we take to many precautions but its people like John Kerry and his buddies in comgress that accuse our men of terrorizing women and children which makes it hard. That is coming from people who are suppose to support our troops and not degrade them.

[dmek25]

killing and raping innocent people just for the sake of doing it will never be justified, in my book. but if civilians get killed along the way, then so be it. kerry fought for this great country. so if anyone has the right to talk about what happened while he was there, it should be him

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people (New York Magazine. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.

Saddam did kill hundreds of thousands of people if i'm not mistaken. But yes, the country was more "stable" under his rule. We are in a no-win situation now, regardless if we stay or leave.

[Duffman003]

I dont see how we can win this war, if it even is a war, since more people are hating the US and creating more terrorists. This just seems like it's going to be the next vietnam but now it seems like we are fighting an entire ethnic group

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

killing and raping innocent people just for the sake of doing it will never be justified, in my book. but if civilians get killed along the way, then so be it. kerry fought for this great country. so if anyone has the right to talk about what happened while he was there, it should be him

I did not know that he was fighting in Iraq? Thats what he sad about our troops there.

[dmek25]

i thought you were talking about vietnam. i didnt hear him say anything bad about our boys in iraq. link?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i thought you were talking about vietnam. i didnt hear him say anything bad about our boys in iraq. link?

YouTube - John Kerry calls American troops terrorists

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by That Guy

well, at least we don't behead them.

but in korea, we couldn't "just fight the war" unless we wanted to invade china (which, by the way, would be totally impossible and unwinnable). Our armed forces aren't as big as they used to be and we can't afford and are not capable of taking on all comers.

Maybe, I was misunderstood. I meant that we are way civil in the process of war. maybe to civil. To my knowledge, we don't torture anybody. And a handful of pics taken of prisoners in the buff is not torture