Who Else feels this way regarding offensive woes..

[Meks]

The main reason besides O-Line problems is Al Saunders...I said this in another thread before but still, our offense wasnt holy shit great in our playoff run but that was also with mr. dink & dunk occasional long pass brunell... and we really only had moss & cooley, now when we do bring in better receivers we go and get some one elses playbook and sum1 else to call the majority of the game... gibbs & bruex were doing fine, everything was working better for them, i honestly think the players have not bought into this system or even feel that comfortable in it, sure it may have worked in K.C. to a certain extent... thats all it will work for us, it will not work well against good defensive teams.... Al's playcalling is way to c0onservative, maybe joe influences that too but still, we did not need a new playbook... our recievers arent exactly the fun bunch but they could play similar in GIBBS offense....

[GridIron26]

Just check this out, hope Saunders is right..

washingtonpost.com

[GMScud]

I believe the thinking behind bringing in Saunders was sound. He and Gibbs are from the same coaching tree, and we had similarities to his situation in KC: veteran QB, a strong O-line in place with a RB coming off a franchise-record setting season, a great TE.... Plus Saunders' KC squads led the league in total offense every year. Unforunately, like many, many offseason acquistions in the past, it hasn't worked out.

That being said I think there are 10 other threads out there just like this one...

[70Chip]

Hopefully, they will let it all hang out this weekend. It's an opportunity to shut us all up.

It's funny how Williams is back in the saddle at Redskins Park again. Three months ago, everyone was bitching about how he had no people skills, etc.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Meks

The main reason besides O-Line problems is Al Saunders...I said this in another thread before but still, our offense wasnt holy shit great in our playoff run but that was also with mr. dink & dunk occasional long pass brunell... and we really only had moss & cooley, now when we do bring in better receivers we go and get some one elses playbook and sum1 else to call the majority of the game... gibbs & bruex were doing fine, everything was working better for them, i honestly think the players have not bought into this system or even feel that comfortable in it, sure it may have worked in K.C. to a certain extent... thats all it will work for us, it will not work well against good defensive teams.... Al's playcalling is way to c0onservative, maybe joe influences that too but still, we did not need a new playbook... our recievers arent exactly the fun bunch but they could play similar in GIBBS offense....

my personal opinion is your way off base. these plays being called are NOT al Saunders plays. some may be, but big JOE is a HEAVY influence on the game plan and how Al calls the game. Als offense has worked everywhere. remember the greatest show on turf?? remember KC and the 32 points a game they put up for about 4 years straight?? those were all Als offenses. My thing is i think coach JOE is so worried about turn overs and crap that he is scared to really let Al call the plays. Last year was a normal 1st year for an Al Saunders offense. If you go back and look at the stats from his 1st years in St Louis and KC, you will see they were mid to bottom 20's in the NFL. The second year they went up about 10 spots to close to top 10. then of course the 3rd and following years they were always top 3 or 5 in total offense. I just think Joe is not allowing all to open it up so to speak. these guys have been here 2 years w/ al, I think its about time to see what the big O can do.

[Meks]

i'd like to see it too...

[SouperMeister]

I disagree with the original post. Saunders offense has worked everywhere else but it sputters here for a reason. I believe that Gibbs is pressuring Saunders to stick closer to the Gibbs 1.0 formula of establishing the smashmouth running game at all costs before opening up the passing attack. Before coming here, Saunders was to offensive playcalling what Belichick was to defensive playcalling - completely unpredictable. Here he has stretches where he is completely predictable. Against Arizona, it was obvious that the Skins had a conservative gameplan, so the Cards' safeties had little reason to sit back in fear of the deep ball.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

my personal opinion is your way off base. these plays being called are NOT al Saunders plays. some may be, but big JOE is a HEAVY influence on the game plan and how Al calls the game. Als offense has worked everywhere. remember the greatest show on turf?? remember KC and the 32 points a game they put up for about 4 years straight?? those were all Als offenses. My thing is i think coach JOE is so worried about turn overs and crap that he is scared to really let Al call the plays. Last year was a normal 1st year for an Al Saunders offense. If you go back and look at the stats from his 1st years in St Louis and KC, you will see they were mid to bottom 20's in the NFL. The second year they went up about 10 spots to close to top 10. then of course the 3rd and following years they were always top 3 or 5 in total offense. I just think Joe is not allowing all to open it up so to speak. these guys have been here 2 years w/ al, I think its about time to see what the big O can do.

I agree. We're what, 54 games into Gibbs Part 2, and it ain't working on offense. We're paying Saunders $2M a year, time for Gibbs to get some balls and let him call THE WHOLE game, not just parts of it. Gibbs plays eveything so close to the vest, and absolutely DREADS the idea of things like important field goals (he can never watch) and turnovers. The past should be a predictor of the future- Saunders had amazing succeess with offensive autonomy before. He should have it now.

[Meks]

maybe gibbs handcuffs on saunders is the reason, maybe its not, i just dont think our team is right for his offense, or bought into it enuff, i mean when joe & don were calling the plays we had some great offensive games in '05 ..seemed like we went deep alot more too.... is all im sayin.

[SouperMeister]

One point about Gibbs fear of turnovers, yes, they can be bad, but also the field position effect of a turnover is relative. Throwing an occasional pick on a 40 yard bomb hurts no worse than a 40 yard punt, and serves to keep the opposing safeties honest. With our line woes, if opposing defenses deploy a safety as a roving LB, we have very little chance of running the football consistently. I maintain that Gibbs/Saunders need to re-establish Campbell as a threat to make plays downfield.

[GMScud]

One thing Saunders has always had until now is a dominant O-line. Last year the line was healthy, but Portis got hurt and we had very inconsistnet play from the QB position, and a defense that was so banged up it couldn't keep us in games. Now we have a healthy backfield, a consistent QB, and a D playing lights out, but the O-line is ravaged. As I've mentioned over and over, we have to adapt on offense to make up for shortcomings. Running left on almost every 1st and 2nd down isn't adapting. It's being stupidly stubborn. I know Fabini and Wade aren't pro-bowlers, but we have to try to mix it up and go in different directions. How about some more screens? How about a throw down the middle of the field?

[Meks]

i agree with re-establishing campbell as a threat ... the entire league knew brunell & moss could be dangerous... that effect helped us run the ball in 05

[Meks]

did we have the money to keep Doc? ... looks like we could sure use him now

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Meks

maybe gibbs handcuffs on saunders is the reason, maybe its not, i just dont think our team is right for his offense, or bought into it enuff, i mean when joe & don were calling the plays we had some great offensive games in '05 ..seemed like we went deep alot more too.... is all im sayin.

Our O was a drain on our team in 05 and our D was the only reason we made it to the playoffs. If our D was even average in 05 we would not have even come close to the playoffs.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Meks

did we have the money to keep Doc? ... looks like we could sure use him now

No one could have predicted our injuries, and Pete Kendall has done a damn good job in Dockery's place. If we gave him the kind of money Buffalo did we may not have been able to get Smoot and Fletcher, and may also have had a hard time giving Cooley the nice extension he totally earned.