-- Zorn to Talk to Lloyd Before Cutting Him --

[Ruhskins]

I say either give him a chance or trade him...I'm sure someone will bite (Matt Millen anyone?). Heck, last year there were some people ridiculing the idea of Moss going to another team. I say let's see if the change in staff can change him or let's get something in return...a draft pick that we can use to get someone or use it in a trade.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Lloyd's situation is one that makes me have disdain for the way players are compensated in today's NFL.

Imagine if this was a MLB or NBA contract and ALL guaranteed. That would really suck for us.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

I know it is a scenario that won't come to pass, but just remember that both Chris Cooley and Derrick Dockery were both 3rd round picks ...

A 3rd round pick is typically high value, you definitely expect a guy to start eventually if you nab him in the 3rd.

I don't know just how much Huff is really worth, but for anybody to take Loyd you'd have to sweeten the deal somehow. I know this deal will never go down, but honestly think it's not bad even if we gave up a 3rd.

[SBXVII]

Ok, here's my proposal....due to the fact he comes from a WC offense and SUPPOSEDLY thrived in it.....Lets send him to the Eagles and throw in Cartwright to sweeten the deal for one of their UFA'S?

[celts32]

The only reason to talk to him is to give him a few choice words before cutting his arse.

[skinsfan69]

I think we should keep the guy and actually throw the ball to him more than 5 times a year. I know he's a bad guy but maybe the new staff will get something out of him that Gibbs and Saunders could not. Bring him back and let him compete. It's not like we have a ton of options.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Brandon Lloyd Career:

2003 Opportunities: 30
Catch %: 47

2004 Opportunities: 89
Catch %: 48

2005 Opportunities: 109
Catch %: 34

2006 Opportunities: 58
Catch %: 41


2007 Opportunities: 6
Catch %: 33

Total Opportunities: 292
Catch %: 41

Can we stop defending Brandon Lloyd now? He's got a strong case at being the worst receiver ever to play professional football. I'm not exaggerating.

Good post. I just don't understand people that want to give him yet another chance.

Give it up. The writing is on the wall, the guy is a giant turd.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Ok, here's my proposal....due to the fact he comes from a WC offense and SUPPOSEDLY thrived in it.....Lets send him to the Eagles and throw in Cartwright to sweeten the deal for one of their UFA'S?

Rock isn't even under contract right now.

[Carnage]

I dont believe Lloyd was in the west coast offense when he was at San Fran. Wasnt norval his OC? I know they ran it for decades, but I think they had stopped then.

[JoeRedskin]

Dear lord. Four more pages on Lloyd! When will the madness end?

Warpath Thread Hall of Shame: Ramsey, Arrington, Lloyd.

Discussion of these three individuals is an counter-intuitive to the motto "Discussion for the knowledgeable fan."

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yes, the net cap hit is lessened every year we keep him on, but every year we keep him on he gets to see more and more of his contract value.

So cut him out of spite? Because he's not worth the money? Here's a thought...don't give a very mediocre player that much $$ in the first place. Is anyone really that surprised that this prima donna didn't work out? Now, as far as I can tell, you're stuck with him.

IMO, you don't start cutting guys and eating big cap hits when you're trying like hell to get under the cap. If they had something like 10 or 12 million in cap room, sure knock yourself out, cut the guy, but at this point I just don't think it makes any sense. Why waste the cap space.

I'm not saying he should ever get to cash another check from this team, but my opinion is that we don't have many other options. I mean, the guy can't possibly do any worse than he's done since he got here. He can only try to contribute...the problem with that is, I don't even know that he's interested in doing that.

So, I guess, what I'm saying is, the guy is a waste of money and I don't want him, but it doesn't make sense (financially) to cut him. Cutting him because he's an @$$hole isn't a good enough reason for me, especially not when you're already over the cap.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah, and on the bolded part, everyone think about your workplace. Imagine there's a guy in your office with a bad attitude, doesn't work hard, sucks to be around, and doesn't do his job well. And he gets paid a ton more than you.

How do you feel about him? How do you feel about your employer for keeping him around?

Keeping a highly paid player who underachieves essentially sends the message to the team that you're validating him. It sends the message that the team has no sense of justice or fairness. Players don't want to hear that his cap charge is prohibitive to cutting him, they just can't stand that he's getting paid that much to suck that bad.

Getting rid of him helps to eliminate a source of bad team morale from the locker room. He's had enough chances, he deserves to be cut, and the Redskins will be better off in both the near term and the long term if they do it now.

Now consider whether or not there are salary cap implications at your job...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jdlea

So cut him out of spite? Because he's not worth the money? Here's a thought...don't give a very mediocre player that much $$ in the first place. Is anyone really that surprised that this prima donna didn't work out? Now, as far as I can tell, you're stuck with him.

IMO, you don't start cutting guys and eating big cap hits when you're trying like hell to get under the cap. If they had something like 10 or 12 million in cap room, sure knock yourself out, cut the guy, but at this point I just don't think it makes any sense. Why waste the cap space.

I'm not saying he should ever get to cash another check from this team, but my opinion is that we don't have many other options. I mean, the guy can't possibly do any worse than he's done since he got here. He can only try to contribute...the problem with that is, I don't even know that he's interested in doing that.

So, I guess, what I'm saying is, the guy is a waste of money and I don't want him, but it doesn't make sense (financially) to cut him. Cutting him because he's an @$$hole isn't a good enough reason for me, especially not when you're already over the cap.

I'm preety sure we're under the cap actually

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jdlea

So cut him out of spite? Because he's not worth the money? Here's a thought...don't give a very mediocre player that much $$ in the first place. Is anyone really that surprised that this prima donna didn't work out? Now, as far as I can tell, you're stuck with him.

IMO, you don't start cutting guys and eating big cap hits when you're trying like hell to get under the cap. If they had something like 10 or 12 million in cap room, sure knock yourself out, cut the guy, but at this point I just don't think it makes any sense. Why waste the cap space.

I'm not saying he should ever get to cash another check from this team, but my opinion is that we don't have many other options. I mean, the guy can't possibly do any worse than he's done since he got here. He can only try to contribute...the problem with that is, I don't even know that he's interested in doing that.

So, I guess, what I'm saying is, the guy is a waste of money and I don't want him, but it doesn't make sense (financially) to cut him. Cutting him because he's an @$$hole isn't a good enough reason for me, especially not when you're already over the cap.

Okay, I was a bit unclear. Money is cap. Cap is money. Roster bonuses and base salaries are not guaranteed, and as the cap lingo goes are not earned until said player accomplishes the tasks.

Your points are correct from a purely 2008 perspective. It's tougher to create cap room in 2008 if we release B. Lloyd before his roster bonus than if we just leave him on the 53 man.

But that's not the whole picture. It's important to understand the factors of contract: 1) Money that has already been counted against the cap in previous years, 2) Money that is guaranteed/earned, but has not been counted against the salary cap yet, and 3) Money that is not guaranteed and has not been earned. Here's how B. Lloyd's contract breaks down:

Contract: 7 years/$29M/$5M SB/$5M SB in 2007/$1.8M RB in 2008

So the day after Lloyd signed the deal:

Money counted against cap (beginning of time-2005)= $0
Money that is guaranteed/earned= $10 million (both SBs)
Money that is unearned= $19 million

Here's those same specs one year later (March, 2007):

2006 Cap Number ~ 1.5 million
Money counted against the cap (2006)= $1.5 million
Money that is guaranteed/earned= $10.75 million (Signing bonuses plus 2006 earnings)
Money that is unearned= $18.25 million

And those specs right now (today)
2007 Cap Number ~ 2.33 million
Money counted against the cap (2006-2007)= $3.83 million (2006+2007 cap number)
Money that is guaranteed/earned= $11.50 million (SBs + 2006 base earnings + 2007 base earnings)
Money that is unearned= $17.50 million

Remember how Redskin contracts are backloaded? Basically, if we let Lloyd play this year, we owe him not only his $853,000 base salary, but also a $1.8 million roster bonus. Now, we never have to pay either of those if we cut Lloyd today, and we save the $17.50 million that is unearned. If Lloyd is still on the roster a week from today, his roster bonus becomes earned and that $17.50 million becomes $15.70 million. If we leave him on through the season, that number becomes $14.90 million.

Eventually, that number keeps dwindling until it becomes zero, and the contract expires. The point is this: the sooner you get him off your roster, the less he takes off the total value of your cap.

And yes, it's a $7 million cap hit to cut him before the bonus is due, but you are paying $7 million against this year's cap, saving $4,238,000 instantly, and $17.50 million in total contract value. So it's definately in our benefit to eat it now, much like we did with Arch last season.

The only way a team can prevent a player from earning unearned money is to release him, period.

[jdlea]

I certainly see all of your points Tripp, and I'm certainly not condoning the continued high salary of Brandon Lloyd, I'm merely pointing out that for this season alone, it makes the cap kind of a pain. I also acknowledge that pretty much anytime we cut him, it's going to be a decent sized cap hit.

If the team can afford to eat the money this season, then that's a good idea, but if it will put them further over the cap (or back over the cap) I'm not sure that it's the right move.