Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

No conservative I heard mentioned anything about socialism or "howled" when MMS was found to be negligent in carrying out their responsibilities and having inappropriate relationships with the oil companies. No reasonable conservative would've said a damn thing if the Obama Administration had simply complied with the permit and enforcement practices and regulations in place. Had they done that this problem may have been averted.

Huge difference between necessary regulation (safety of oil wells/rigs) and unnecessary regulation (crap & trade). Expanding drilling should not be a problem if proper safety practices are kept by the oil industry and enforced properly by the government. The U.S. Gov't receives a percentage of the oil revenue from these operations, and as such has the right and responsibility to enforce safety regulation.

Your all-saving federal government dropped the ball in a big way here too. And as you mentioned, they don't have the solution to stop the problem either so what good would it do to federalize BP. You think Hugo, Fidel and the Chinese give a damn about the environment, this could just as easily happened off the coast of Venezula or the Florida strait.

Venezuela Offshore Rig Sinks - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/09/wa...n/09drill.html

Of course you didn't hear any conservative howling socialism during a time of crisis. Why would they, it would be political suicide. Rand Paul was the only fool out there defending BP, but I digress. And I beg to differ that had Obama ratcheted up the pressure on MMS prior to this spill that conservatives would have just sat by silently. You would have seen every Tea Party protest(er) that Fox could point their cameras at calling the president Marxist, Socialist, and everything else under the sun. Republicans have made the calculation, I believe foolishly, that the only way back to a majority in Congress is to flat out oppose all Obama legislation. Even if it's a position they've previously supported.

But I think the larger point to be made, from a political and policy perspective, is that the drill, baby, drill crowd: Sarah Palin, Michael Steele, John McCain et al have been curiously silent regarding how they would deal with BP, the oil spill and the damage it has inflicted on the environment, and how the US should approach off shore drilling in a sensible way in the future. I think this president deserves (of course he won't get it here) tremendous credit for including off shore drilling in his energy policy and having the courage to continue to stand by his decision.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Man I have said it before, we as a human race do not have the technology to stop this. Prayer is needed. Everybody complaining they want the president to come down to the gulf and hold their hands. No one is dying. They weren't calling the president when the profits were rolling in. They made the choice. As always, a corporation choose profits (your little divine stock market) over the beauty god created in the gulf. Corporation and free market thinkers alike believe in profits first, the rest be damned. This time we bit it for their profit. It's sad!!!

Never mind that the whole thing began with an explosion that killed 11 people

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

And I beg to differ that had Obama ratcheted up the pressure on MMS prior to this spill that conservatives would have just sat by silently. You would have seen every Tea Party protest(er) that Fox could point their cameras at calling the president Marxist, Socialist, and everything else under the sun.

We'll just have to disagree on this one. I don't see O'Reilly/Hannity/Rush/Fox News/etc. running segments on the "Marxist Obama Admin. enforcing existing MMS policy and regulation that has been in place since the Bush Admin." Beck, maybe. But only if the red phone and chalk board linking Obama/BP/Mao/Chavez/ Stalin are in the segment.

FWIW, I recall O'Reilly defending the Admin's response a week or two ago.

But I think the larger point to be made, from a political and policy perspective, is that the drill, baby, drill crowd: Sarah Palin, Michael Steele, John McCain et al have been curiously silent regarding how they would deal with BP, the oil spill and the damage it has inflicted on the environment, and how the US should approach off shore drilling in a sensible way in the future.

Which is pretty stupid IMO. No way they should let the Dems and Obama Admin take sole credit for better rules/regs and punishing BP. Now would be the time to work across the aisle to put an unlimited cap on damages, which would force oil companies to assess risks differently than with a cap of $ 75M or $ 350M whatever it is (jtf, that's how a free market should work). Jam BP for every last cent to clean up this disaster and compensate folks in the Gulf whose property values and livelihoods are destroyed, and if BP won't play, shut down every drilling permit they have in U.S. territory. Put in tougher safety inspection and permitting processes and make the oil companies pay a fee/royalty for the increased manpower to support better inspections. Make damn sure every safety device recommended is a requirement.

I think this president deserves (of course he won't get it here) tremendous credit for including off shore drilling in his energy policy and having the courage to continue to stand by his decision.

Let's not break our arms patting Obama on the back for "including off-shore drilling" here. All he did was allow for expansion of exploration on the Eastern seaboard and North coast of Alaska, with the leases for exploration not being bid on until 2012. This decision was calculated to gain support for his cap & tax proposal.

[SolidSnake84]

Well it sounds like Deja Vu i know, but the latest word from BP is that their oil spill could be capped later today. They are currently in the process of lowering the LMRP (Lower marine riser package) on top of the failed blowout preventer. If everything goes smoooth, it should be working by this evening.

their last option before giving up entirely and waiting for relief wells will be installing a second blowout preventer on top of the failed one....

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Well it sounds like Deja Vu i know, but the latest word from BP is that their oil spill could be capped later today. They are currently in the process of lowering the LMRP (Lower marine riser package) on top of the failed blowout preventer. If everything goes smoooth, it should be working by this evening.

their last option before giving up entirely and waiting for relief wells will be installing a second blowout preventer on top of the failed one....

The relief well is the key. In Canada whenever you build a deep water well you must build a relief well. Imagine if the relief well was aq\lready in place? The leak would have been a spill and stopped possibly within the first week. Hmm, I say require a relief well for every well. Good punishment on their profits. If they say this makes us less competitive I say Busllshit we can have a new company get the oil (that's not Halliburton).

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Never mind that the whole thing began with an explosion that killed 11 people

True, the tragic explosion RIP. To the peole who want every dredge in America I feel your pain, but the world is not gonna stop for you. It's unforntunate. It's sad.

[SolidSnake84]

You'd have just thought that they would have some safety method in place that could have prevented this, for example, the blowout preventer having a manual mode of some kind where it could be manipulated with the robots. Basically a backup plan for the backup plan. I know the robots tried to get it to work, but it seems like they pretty much knew that they had long odds from day one. The whole operation just seemed to be too dangerous in the event that something went wrong. and something did go wrong.

I dont get the feeling of BP being calculated and measured, as some people on this thread have alleged. I see a company that is scrambling for solutions they never possessed in the first place, a company who is dealing with a staining public image, and now a company who may face criminal charges. Tony Heyward, BP's CEO, looks more and more gaunt each day. That man didn't cause this problem, but i'm sure he will end up losing his job over it, and could possibly go to jail....it's just hell in the gulf right now.

We are past the limits of science, or what man can do to fix this. Man has no way to fix this. Nothing short of divine intervention will save the people of the gulf. It's time to Pray. God is the only person who can fix what they did.

[budw38]

Maybe , just maybe this is more reason why we should drill on shore , like ANWAR and other area's where we have oil/shale . We will likely not find a replacement for oil anytime soon , sadly . R.I.P. to those who lost their lives on that rig .

[MTK]

Could get worse:

Undersea oil pipelines vulnerable to hurricanes - USATODAY.com

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Meanwhile, in Utopia World we expand drilling and we keep a beautiful coast. In reality it's just another trade off. Life is about trade offs in Capitalism. What's more important that damn oil, or the Gulf. Different people will have different answers regardless of what their religious affiliation or political , it's that simple . You want the oil? Things like this will happen. We know ain't nobody turning any money down. Let us pray for the environment. Forgive us oh lord for not being good stewards of the blessing you bestowed upon the now almost defunct Native Amercians. Please forgive us for our greed and insolence.

You act like this was cause by capitalism. So I guess all the other types of goverments don't use oil or need oil?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

You'd have just thought that they would have some safety method in place that could have prevented this, for example, the blowout preventer having a manual mode of some kind where it could be manipulated with the robots. Basically a backup plan for the backup plan. I know the robots tried to get it to work, but it seems like they pretty much knew that they had long odds from day one. The whole operation just seemed to be too dangerous in the event that something went wrong. and something did go wrong.

I dont get the feeling of BP being calculated and measured, as some people on this thread have alleged. I see a company that is scrambling for solutions they never possessed in the first place, a company who is dealing with a staining public image, and now a company who may face criminal charges. Tony Heyward, BP's CEO, looks more and more gaunt each day. That man didn't cause this problem, but i'm sure he will end up losing his job over it, and could possibly go to jail....it's just hell in the gulf right now.

We are past the limits of science, or what man can do to fix this. Man has no way to fix this. Nothing short of divine intervention will save the people of the gulf. It's time to Pray. God is the only person who can fix what they did.

See that's what I don't get. They have the shut off valve which failed then after that its like now what do we do. I'm not talking just BP because it seems that no one has the technology to deal with this issue other then drilling a second well which should have been done along withe the main well. I would have thought that there would have been strick goverment regulation making sure they could handle a problem like this. I think this is a good case to prove that our congress is getting paid off to look the other way. Both parties are guilty because this did not start with Obama or Bush we have been drilling for oil for much longer.

[MTK]

How about some strict internal safety measures from BP to begin with? Interesting that some are suddenly in favor of more gov't involvement.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How about some strict internal safety measures from BP to begin with? Interesting that some are suddenly in favor of more gov't involvement.

I am one who favors as little gov't involvement as possible. That said, I have no problems with punitive fines, and possibly criminal neglect charges, against BP execs who allowed the lax security in this case. The only real regulation I would want to see is a relief well requirement for deep water wells (what ever deep water is defined as) and a required approved Emergency Action Plan(EAP) and I imagine the EAP requirement already exists. Unfortunately, when huge mistakes happen Government is required to step in. Then it's impossible to get them back out again

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by firstdown

See that's what I don't get. They have the shut off valve which failed then after that its like now what do we do. I'm not talking just BP because it seems that no one has the technology to deal with this issue other then drilling a second well which should have been done along withe the main well. I would have thought that there would have been strick goverment regulation making sure they could handle a problem like this. I think this is a good case to prove that our congress is getting paid off to look the other way. Both parties are guilty because this did not start with Obama or Bush we have been drilling for oil for much longer.

as far as i'm concerned, it goes back really as far as Dick Cheney and George H.W. Bush in the early 90's.....

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

as far as i'm concerned, it goes back really as far as Dick Cheney and George H.W. Bush in the early 90's.....

Dude they have been drilling for oil much longer then that. What do you think they had a way to stop these leaks and when Bush took office the technology just disappeared. Its apparent now that no one has had any safty plan for these types of disaster.