Time to revisit my April post...

[Balmerskinsfan]

No shit idiot, but its rather stupid to assume that because I'm bashing Ramsey I must be all about Brunell, don't you think? The real point is that neither of these players have much value. No one is going to give the skins a first round pick for either of these guys. If you read the posts before mine, someone raised the question what did GIBBS do to decrease Ramsey's value. I was simply stating that Ramseys previously inflated value was due to the feeling that he had POTENTIAL. His subsequent play has proven this perception WRONG. RAMSEY decreased his own value by playing medicore, mistake-ridden football. Gibbs had nothing to do with this.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Balmerskinsfan

If you read the posts before mine, someone raised the question what did GIBBS do to decrease Ramsey's value.

he pulled him after 3 drives, that's what he did to decrease any value he had.
nice language by the way prick.

[Balmerskinsfan]

3 drives, 0 tds, and how many ints again? Face it, Ramsey has shown himself to be not worth the previous hype. No team in their right mind is going to give up serious value for a guy who plays like a backup QB. This is because he doesn't play particularly well. Whether or not he plays better than Brunell (another mediocre QB) is a separate argument. Look, Ramsey is not good enough to warrant another team giving up a 1st round pick for him, period. Gibbs played him for half a season last year and people saw enough to realize he is not that great. Maybe not a BAD qb, but NOT VERY GOOD. Playing another year of int riddled football would not have suddenly increased his value. And yeah, I thought my language was pretty appropriate given the idiocy of your inital reply.

[skinsguy]

Assuming we might be able to get a 2nd rounder or a 3rd rounder for Patrick Ramsey isn't a knock on the guy at all. I think that speaks rather well for him.

I think feeling we deserve a first rounder is being a bit unrealistic, but I'll say it again. If we can get a 1st rounder for him, fine with me, I won't complain.

[illdefined]

don't think anybody would consider the first 3 drives of the season against a fresh, amped Bears defense a reasonable chance. guess that's where we differ.

don't forget last year those INTs came with game winning TDs. with fifty-fifty Gardner and Toeless Coles as his targets. Ramsey singlehandedly made Cooley a star.

[illdefined]

hope wherever he goes it's not in this division, just imagine the chip on his shoulder (and his knowledge of the Skins, he was supposed to be the starter after all)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I'm going to have to choose between "TAFKAR" or "Warhog."

Go with "Warhog"

TAFKAR will just confuse the hell out of me

[Balmerskinsfan]

[QUOTE=illdefined]don't think anybody would consider the first 3 drives of the season against a fresh, amped Bears defense a reasonable chance. guess that's where we differ.


No, we differ in that you seem to have forgotten about 7 stinky starts last year and an entire stinky preseason this year. Unlike you, other teams in the league havn't forgotten Ramseys past. This is what has decreased his value.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Go with "Warhog"

TAFKAR will just confuse the hell out of me

LOL!!!! Warhog would be pretty cool! :headbange

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Balmerskinsfan

And yeah, I thought my language was pretty appropriate given the idiocy of your inital reply.

illdefined knows that I disagree with him on Ramsey. I believe that Ramsey is no better than when last season ended. That even though it's true he only played a quarter and change this season, he had all of minicamps, OTAs, training camp, and preseason to work on his weaknesses-telegraphing passes, reading defenses, forcing plays-and whether he did or not, he just didn't improve on them.

He was given the starter's job and seemed to take it for granted, in my opinion. And, we probably can't afford to have him "learn on the job" during the regular season.

HOWEVER, while I don't agree with illdefined there was nothing idiotic about his post. And no, that language is not appropriate, nor is the personal attack you made on him.

[illdefined]

Ramsey's value is less now then it was three drives into the season. thats Gibbs doing, even if it was Gibbs who inflated his value by naming him and practing him as a starter in the first place.

[Balmerskinsfan]

It is? Who told you, a group of NFL owners? What a crock. Ramsey's value is the same now as it was when the season started, and that value is: middlin'. Since when does benching a QB have a definitive impact on his value for other teams? Some bench QBs have lots of value (ie Matt Schaub or maybe Jon Kitna) some starting QBs don't have much value (ie Kyle Boller and Ramsey.) Performance and potential dictate value, not what one coach thinks of a players value relative to other players on that same team.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Balmerskinsfan

Performance and potential dictate value, not what one coach thinks of a players value relative to other players on that same team.

he didn't get to show either with our new offense in a real game.

[Balmerskinsfan]

What exactly is your point? That Ramsey should have been given yet another chance to show that he is capable of running an NFL offense? Because that is not the argument here. Start another thread about that if you want. The ongoing argument is whether Gibbs is responsible for Ramsey's trade value dropping with other teams. You claim that Gibbs is responsible for inflating Ramsey's value by naming him the starter, and then dropping his value by benching him. This is ludicrous. Other teams didn't reevaluate their assessment of Ramsey based on Gibbs starting him over a washed up has been in Brunell just as they didn't suddenly downgrade him when he stopped starting. According to this logic, Trent Dilfer should suddenly be a hot commodity since he's starting again in Cleveland, but anyone with sense knows this is crap. The fact that one coach has decided that he is the best player at a position on one team doesn't have jack to do with how other teams define that player's value. Teams used to look at Ramsey and value his potential as a young starter higher that his performance. Now, they have a track record of performance to look at, and this has decreased his value. Gibbs did impact Ramsey's value, but only by starting him. Ramsey didn't play particularly well, so his value has dropped. And just to keep from confusing people, Ramsey's track record includes last year and this preseason, not just the first 3 plays of the Bears game.

[illdefined]

you're right, it's not the title of starter it's what he does with it. i disagree though that how HOF Gibbs sees him doesn't affect how others do. another coach and i'd agree. by removing the title, Ramsey had no reasonable chance to improve on his value, and by removing it so suddenly in favor of Mark Brunell, i argue that his value IS worse now than it was at the end of last season in many coaches eyes.