Who is Kirk Cousins?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by rocnrik

Punch it in …I could not have said it better!!

Thank you....Ill be here all week.

[Brody81]

Originally Posted by punch it in

your very last sentence would be just fine. Totally agree with the age vs game experience thing. Late bloomer to me is a qb who starts more than one or two seasons worth of games, or drifts around the league as a backup and than bursts on to the scene, not one who rides the bench behind a first round pick for a couple years than gets his chance. I would not call steve young a late bloomer. He got a late chance. His and kc's whole nfl trips are very rare. They both were deemed worth holding onto while waiting for their chance. Not often a team picks a qb at number two than drafts another so early if at all that year. Kc never had a chance in 2012 except to come off the bench and for good reason. 2013 and 2014 to me would be a tough go for any second or third year qb. Changing of regimes and a polarizing guy like rg-3 still clearly at the forefront of the qb discussion.
If we are looking for progress we need not look towards the end of the season. I saw it just last week when he pulled off the biggest comeback in team history. No matter who we were playing that is not an easy thing to do. I for one think kc is smart enough -especially after last week - to learn not to force throws and the issue during a game. He will mature (in starting game years) and wait for a bettet team to be built around him, number one wr, better run game, better o-line, better d!

👍👍👍

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Your very last sentence would be just fine. Totally agree with the age vs game experience thing. Late bloomer to me is a qb who starts more than one or two seasons worth of games, or drifts around the league as a backup and than bursts on to the scene, not one who rides the bench behind a first round pick for a couple years than gets his chance. I would not call Steve Young a late bloomer. He got a late chance. His and KC's whole NFL trips are very rare. They both were deemed worth holding onto while waiting for their chance.

With all due respect, no. Just. No.

Steve Young was signed out of college in '84 to the LA Express in the USFL - at the time he was given an astronomical contract to do so (10 year/ $40 Million - in '86 the average NFL salary was ~200K). Young played 1 1/2 seasons with them the Express before they went bankrupt then signed with TBay which used the first pick of the 1984 Supplemental Draft to draft and sign him (meaning TBay gave up their first rounder in the regular draft - the 2nd pick overall). His first year with TBay (for which he was only available for about half the season) he started 5 games. His second season with TB he started 14 games. Both years, TBay went 2-14. After two years in TBay where he threw 11 TD's /21 INT's, he was traded to SF for a 2nd and fourth round pick. Walsh specifically acquired Young with the intent to sit behind HOF QB Joe Montana - which Young did for three years. (BTW - in his third year/first in SF, Young threw 10 TD's and no INT's in his three games).

The problem with any comparison to Young is that Young was seen as a top tier talent coming out of college and throughout his early career. Not so Mr. Cousins. Further, sure Young had limited opportunities to start in SF waiting behind Montana ... however, and here is the big difference, Young was never sent to the bench for the likes of COLT MCCOY! KC was given the job last year and LOST IT TO COLT! I repeat - KIRK COUSINS LOST THE STARTING JOB TO COLT MCCOY. Nothing in Steve Young's career is comparable to that simple fact. When given starting opportunities due to injury, Steve Young performed well but was sent to the bench for JOE MONTANA! Sorry, Young is NOT a comparable to KC. Not even a little.

[As an aside, can we stop looking for comparables for KC among HOF QB's - first it was "Manning and Farve threw a lot of INT's their first couple years." Now it's "Well, he is just getting a late shot at starting. Just like Steve Young." Barring a miraculous turnaround by KC that would be contrary to the entirety of his past QB history, no HOF QB should be used as a reasonable comparable to Kirk. Ever.]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Not often a team picks a qb at number two than drafts another so early if at all that year. KC never had a chance in 2012 except to come off the bench and for good reason. 2013 and 2014 to me would be a tough go for any second or third year qb. Changing of regimes and a polarizing guy like RG-3 still clearly at the forefront of the qb discussion.

Kirk has been given shots - certainly last year - to stake his claim. After three years in the league, He did not. It's just that simple.

Originally Posted by punch it in

If we are looking for progress we need not look towards the end of the season. I saw it just last week when he pulled off the biggest comeback in team history. No matter who we were playing that is not an easy thing to do. I for one think KC is smart enough -especially after last week - to learn not to force throws and the issue during a game. He will mature (in starting game years) and wait for a bettet team to be built around him, number one wr, better run game, better o-line, better D!

He had a really good game against TBay, a really good clutch drive in Philly. He sucked against the Giants - badly. I don't know which KC is going to show up in NE but my guess is Bad Kirk. Bad Kirk shows up a lot and at random times.

He has had FOUR YEARS to learn "not to force throws" - yet he forced a Tony-Romo-I-must-be-choking throw in Atlanta that turned into a pick 6. Why "especially after last week" do you think the light has suddenly come on?? More importantly, why do you think it will stay on given his proven inconsistency?? The man is a 27 year old, fourth year QB with plenty of in-game experience & starting experience who has yet to unequivocally demonstrate that he can be a consistent starter in this league.

KC is a great guy who has shown some improvement in his play on a game by game basis. He has not, however, shown that he can string three good games in a row without being incredibly inaccurate and/or avoid multiple picks.

You want to believe in magic transformations, I am not going to stop you. I hope for one too. However, please don't try to sell me magical transformations through ill-conceived attempts at rational logic.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

With all due respect, no. Just. No.



Steve Young was signed out of college in '84 to the LA Express in the USFL - at the time he was given an astronomical contract to do so (10 year/ $40 Million - in '86 the average NFL salary was ~200K). Young played 1 1/2 seasons with them the Express before they went bankrupt then signed with TBay which used the first pick of the 1984 Supplemental Draft to draft and sign him (meaning TBay gave up their first rounder in the regular draft - the 2nd pick overall). His first year with TBay (for which he was only available for about half the season) he started 5 games. His second season with TB he started 14 games. Both years, TBay went 2-14. After two years in TBay where he threw 11 TD's /21 INT's, he was traded to SF for a 2nd and fourth round pick. Walsh specifically acquired Young with the intent to sit behind HOF QB Joe Montana - which Young did for three years. (BTW - in his third year/first in SF, Young threw 10 TD's and no INT's in his three games).



The problem with any comparison to Young is that Young was seen as a top tier talent coming out of college and throughout his early career. Not so Mr. Cousins. Further, sure Young had limited opportunities to start in SF waiting behind Montana ... however, and here is the big difference, Young was never sent to the bench for the likes of COLT MCCOY! KC was given the job last year and LOST IT TO COLT! I repeat - KIRK COUSINS LOST THE STARTING JOB TO COLT MCCOY. Nothing in Steve Young's career is comparable to that simple fact. When given starting opportunities due to injury, Steve Young performed well but was sent to the bench for JOE MONTANA! Sorry, Young is NOT a comparable to KC. Not even a little.



[As an aside, can we stop looking for comparables for KC among HOF QB's - first it was "Manning and Farve threw a lot of INT's their first couple years." Now it's "Well, he is just getting a late shot at starting. Just like Steve Young." Barring a miraculous turnaround by KC that would be contrary to the entirety of his past QB history, no HOF QB should be used as a reasonable comparable to Kirk. Ever.]







Kirk has been given shots - certainly last year - to stake his claim. After three years in the league, He did not. It's just that simple.







He had a really good game against TBay, a really good clutch drive in Philly. He sucked against the Giants - badly. I don't know which KC is going to show up in NE but my guess is Bad Kirk. Bad Kirk shows up a lot and at random times.



He has had FOUR YEARS to learn "not to force throws" - yet he forced a Tony-Romo-I-must-be-choking throw in Atlanta that turned into a pick 6. Why "especially after last week" do you think the light has suddenly come on?? More importantly, why do you think it will stay on given his proven inconsistency?? The man is a 27 year old, fourth year QB with plenty of in-game experience & starting experience who has yet to unequivocally demonstrate that he can be a consistent starter in this league.



KC is a great guy who has shown some improvement in his play on a game by game basis. He has not, however, shown that he can string three good games in a row without being incredibly inaccurate and/or avoid multiple picks.



You want to believe in magic transformations, I am not going to stop you. I hope for one too. However, please don't try to sell me magical transformations through ill-conceived attempts at rational logic.

Was waiting for someone to accuse me of comparing KC to Young in terms of talent. Never did I even hint at such a thing. I was simply comparing the facts that they started their careers as bench warmers in the wings. Only because you make it sound like KC is a journeyman qb - he is in a weird situation like Young to begin a career. Usfl teams and the Bucs are comparable to the crap team Cousins has had to "learn " from. Remember Young went to BYU so he was 23 when his pro career began and his time in TB was less than horrible. Threw twice as many picks as td's in those couple years but Walsh thought he had potential so he rode the pine in San Fran. If TB had A Colt Mcoy there is a good chance he would have been benched for him.
Edit: i dont want to believe in magic, or do i think - once again - that Cousins will pan out for sure. I simply want to give him a fair shake. Imo its been 8 weeks. In yours its been 4 years.
Edit : you dont learn not to force throws sitting on the bench or in practice. You just dont. You learn in gametime. You want to call coming off the bench cold against the Seahawks in the playoffs gametime go ahead. I call it being thrown to the wolves. KC is now after 4 years finally the annointed starter for an entire off season/regular season - let it play out. If we half someone half as capable as Steve Young ill be happy. Also lets be fair - Young had the greatest wr of all time and a hof team all around him. When he played for Tampa Bay he couldnt get out of his own way. Go figure.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Was waiting for someone to accuse me of comparing KC to Young in terms of talent. Never did I even hint at such a thing. I was simply comparing the facts that they started their careers as bench warmers in the wings. Only because you make it sound like KC is a journeyman qb - he is in a weird situation like Young to begin a career. Usfl teams and the Bucs are comparable to the crap team Cousins has had to "learn " from. Remember Young went to BYU so he was 23 when his pro career began and his time in TB was less than horrible. Threw twice as many picks as td's in those couple years but Walsh thought he had potential so he rode the pine in San Fran. If TB had A Colt Mcoy there is a good chance he would have been benched for him.
Edit: i dont want to believe in magic, or do i think - once again - that Cousins will pan out for sure. I simply want to give him a fair shake. Imo its been 8 weeks. In yours its been 4 years.

Kirk Cousins was 24 on opening day of his first NFL pro season. Same with Young. Young started 19 games in his first two NFL seasons. After that, in his third year he had 10 TD and 0 INT's in his first year in SF. In his fourth year (when he was 27), Young started 3 games and threw 3 TD/3 INT's and after that his TD/INT ratio never worse than 2/1 and generally much better. Young was never, ever, ever, deemed anything other than as the presumed heir apparent to Montana after his acquisition.

As for the bolded part, it just shows to me how you will ignore facts to make it fit your theory. Young started. He had 19 games of starting experience in TBay after which Walsh saw something that made him want to trade a 2nd and 4th for the guy. But somehow, b/c they weren't "quality starts," we're going to alter reality so that it fits into the "KC just got a late start" narrative.

Last year, KC was given a fair shake. Christ, Gruden was begging for him to stake a claim and end the RGIII drama. And, I'm sorry, it HAS been four years and not just eight weeks - that just plain seeing what you want to see and ignoring facts. HE IS A 27 YEAR OLD, FOURTH YEAR PLAYER. You cannot alter the time/space continuum and to wipe out what has gone before. You cannot ignore what he has been these past three. Tough road or not, he has been consistently inconsistent.

Right now, KC is not a journeyman QB. I expect that, eventually, he will be much like Grossman, Foles, Bradford, Campbell, etc. He's got the talent to bang around the league for a while whether here or someplace else. I just don't expect him to be anything other than who he has shown himself to be these last four years.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Kirk Cousins was 24 on opening day of his first NFL pro season. Same with Young. Young started 19 games in his first two NFL seasons. After that, in his third year he had 10 TD and 0 INT's in his first year in SF. In his fourth year (when he was 27), Young started 3 games and threw 3 TD/3 INT's and after that his TD/INT ratio never worse than 2/1 and generally much better. Young was never, ever, ever, deemed anything other than as the presumed heir apparent to Montana after his acquisition.



As for the bolded part, it just shows to me how you will ignore facts to make it fit your theory. Young started. He had 19 games of starting experience in TBay after which Walsh saw something that made him want to trade a 2nd and 4th for the guy. But somehow, b/c they weren't "quality starts," we're going to alter reality so that it fits into the "KC just got a late start" narrative.



Last year, KC was given a fair shake. Christ, Gruden was begging for him to stake a claim and end the RGIII drama. And, I'm sorry, it HAS been four years and not just eight weeks - that just plain seeing what you want to see and ignoring facts. HE IS A 27 YEAR OLD, FOURTH YEAR PLAYER. You cannot alter the time/space continuum and to wipe out what has gone before. You cannot ignore what he has been these past three. Tough road or not, he has been consistently inconsistent.



Right now, KC is not a journeyman QB. I expect that, eventually, he will be much like Grossman, Foles, Bradford, Campbell, etc. He's got the talent to bang around the league for a while whether here or someplace else. I just don't expect him to be anything other than who he has shown himself to be these last four years.

My only "theory" is that Cousins is getting a late start due to circumstance.
You keep referencing his four years. 2012 - if you remember he had two very good games against the Browns and Ravens when he came in late and won the game for us. 2013 and 2014 He was part of a damn circus with changing regimes and RG-3 was still very much the focal point. Unlike Montana who was in the late stages of his career. We certainly were not grooming both our young qb's and they were very much aware of that. There was a ton of pressure on KC. That brings us to this year. Im seeing strides. Do I see another Steve Young in terms of talent? Certainly not. Do I see someone who can actually be a good qb - better than Grossman, Foles, Bradford, or Campbell? I think I do. We both want him to be way closer to Young than Grossman when it is all said and done so lets just use our super human Redskin fan powers to make it happen. Like the Wondertwins - "Form of a maturing superstar who is not hall of fame material but good enough to win games and has a mean icy disposition to lead two minute drills!"
"Form of a better team around him built by SM including a number one wr, rungame, oline, and D!"

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Kirk Cousins was 24 on opening day of his first NFL pro season. Same with Young. Young started 19 games in his first two NFL seasons.

Cousins just started his 16th game in the NFL.

To say he had a "fair shake" last year .. is not a fair shake.
- He didnt take 1st team reps throughout PS last year
- He started 5 games last year, played in 6
- QB rating over 100 in 3 of the 6 games
- 7 of his 9 ints came in 2 games
- most of his ints came when we were down by more than 2 scores

Kirk Cousins: Game Logs at NFL.com

Film Breakdown: Kirk Cousins' 9 Interceptions in 2014

This year is Cousins fair shake.

To hold an opinion of Cousins for what he did last year and not concede or consider the good things he has done this year (w all the key injuries and no running game) shows a bias imo.

Cousins is the best option we have for the rest of this year. I like the guy and see some real positives in him and I hope he continues to play well and gets better to the point Scot thinks he deserves a few years.

We have 9 more games to see what he can do. Im not rushing to judgment when I dont have to. As a redskins fan, I hope the redskins Qb does well.

For the cousins detractors - who do you want to start next week? Brady or Rodgers isnt walking through the door.

[FRPLG]

Here is what KC is. A guy who has shown a solid makeup and grasp for what it takes to succeed in the NFL on an intellectual level. A guy who has slowly gotten better but still might have emotional deficiencies. AND A GUY WHO TOO OFTEN CANNOT HIT THE BROADSIDE OF A BARN. Nothing will matter unless he finds a magical unicorn pill that will stop him from becoming so inconsistently inaccurate. It is the fatal flaw in his game more than anything. The dagger INTs come when he is struggling to make things happen because of inaccuracy. You can see the frustration in his play ratchet as he misses throw after throw. It all adds up to ineffectiveness that puts us in stressed situations where he has to force plays.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Other than 30gut, please point to anyone suggesting, at this point, who is saying RGIII is a better option than KC?...

I don't fit into that category either.

Just for the sake of accuracy.

I have been saying, even before the season started, that Jay and Griffin wouldn't work. In fact I have been saying that Griffin should have been traded at the end of last season.

Overall my position of Kirk hasn't changed. You'll get some good, some bad, some awesome and some terrible.

What we all want is consistency especially when its comes to decision making and accuracy.

Kirk is becoming the QB he's going to be. He still has time to show consistent accuracy and decision making we are looking for...or not.

[Meks]

You clowns are so damn negative lmao, kirks had 4 seasons? Get real Joe. Just.... get real dude smh

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Meks

You clowns are so damn negative lmao, kirks had 4 seasons? Get real Joe. Just.... get real dude smh

We handle reality better than most fans. Call it negative if you want, but I dismiss people who think the world is all gumdrops and lollipops as children or idiots.

[Meks]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

We handle reality better than most fans. Call it negative if you want, but I dismiss people who think the world is all gumdrops and lollipops as children or idiots.

Not at all man, just some hope and positive thinking in regards to our qb would be nice... instead of writing him off as a journeyman qb and shit like that.... whens the last time we had a qb who even gave us a shot to win this many close games or actually pulled wins like these off ??? I'll wait...

Show some respect the dudes giving his all and winning games and making comebacks... its not like he has a world beater team, or coach around him

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Meks

Not at all man, just some hope and positive thinking in regards to our qb would be nice... instead of writing him off as a journeyman qb and shit like that.... whens the last time we had a qb who even gave us a shot to win this many close games or actually pulled wins like these off ??? I'll wait...

Show some respect the dudes giving his all and winning games and making comebacks... its not like he has a world beater team, or coach around him

Well if you look back at my posts you'll see I have not at all written him off. I've been saying till I'm blue in the face to wait and see how the season plays out. I've said he's definitely taken some steps, and he's also had some clunkers.

But there's no reason to rush the decision - it doesn't have to be made now. So let's leave room for all the hope in the world.

[Meks]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well if you look back at my posts you'll see I have not at all written him off. I've been saying till I'm blue in the face to wait and see how the season plays out. I've said he's definitely taken some steps, and he's also had some clunkers.

But there's no reason to rush the decision - it doesn't have to be made now. So let's leave room for all the hope in the world.

No i know, i wasnt referring to you with that.. i agree, no need to rush a decision, or judgment for that matter.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well if you look back at my posts you'll see I have not at all written him off. I've been saying till I'm blue in the face to wait and see how the season plays out. I've said he's definitely taken some steps, and he's also had some clunkers.

But there's no reason to rush the decision - it doesn't have to be made now. So let's leave room for all the hope in the world.

Cousins is not being asked to be Dan Marino.....he's being asked to manage the offense and take care of the football....he only does the latter on occasion and that's not good enough.