Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

hail_2_da_skins · 12-01-2005, 04:26 PM

I seriously thought Brunnel was washed up. I applauded the Brunnel benching and the move to starting Ramsey and naming him the starter for 2005. It was quite apparent during the preseason, Brunnel put the team in a better position to win. Ramsey was not progressing. What is the cost of a quality starting quarterback? In the NFL, I would say very high. Whether you like him or not, you would have to agree that Brunnel has performed admiringly. Ramsey needs to move on and find out if he can start in the NFL. I just don't see that happening in Washington. The Skins need draft picks to beef up the defensive line and an athletic/physical wide receiver (not TO). They especially need a pass rushing defensive end. That is priority one.

I was very disappointed with last year's draft. Defensive end and wide receiver should have been on the board last year. Here are some defensive ends that were drafted fourth round or beyond.
Chauncey Davis ATL 6'1" 258 lbs. Florida St.
Chris Canty DAL 6'7" 295 lbs. Virginia

scowan · 12-01-2005, 04:27 PM

Guys, Brunell had a 96.83 QB rating last week and did not turn the ball over and we lost. Our loses are more on the D than anything Brunell has or has not done this year. He has an 86.8 rating for the year, which is higher than Ramsey has ever had. We have had 4th Quarter meltdowns because we could not get our D off the field. Ramsey is not the answer. Playing D in the 4th Qtr is the answer.

Twilbert07 · 12-01-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scowan

Guys, Brunell had a 96.83 QB rating last week and did not turn the ball over and we lost. Our loses are more on the D than anything Brunell has or has not done this year. He has an 86.8 rating for the year, which is higher than Ramsey has ever had. We have had 4th Quarter meltdowns because we could not get our D off the field. Ramsey is not the answer. Playing D in the 4th Qtr is the answer.

True. It sure would have been nice to have a field goal or TD in the fourth quarter of the past two games, though.

FirstandTen · 12-01-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

True. It sure would have been nice to have a field goal or TD in the fourth quarter of the past two games, though.

That's all Brunell's fault??

dmek25 · 12-01-2005, 04:38 PM

i not saying anything negative at all about brunell except for his age.he cant play forever.then who will be our next qback?its basically unheard of having 2 number one draft picks at such a close age on one team

FirstandTen · 12-01-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

i not saying anything negative at all about brunell except for his age.he cant play forever.then who will be our next qback?

Let me think....... Campbell

Twilbert07 · 12-01-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

That's all Brunell's fault??

Of course not. But, if you look at the QBs who win close games (Tom Brady comes to mind), they lead the offense to points late in the game.

FirstandTen · 12-01-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

Of course not. But, if you look at the QBs who win close games (Tom Brady comes to mind), they lead the offense to points late in the game.

Ok what has Ramsey ever lead us too?

memphisskin · 12-01-2005, 04:42 PM

To me a qb can't have a good game in a close loss. His rating doesn't mean squat if he can't make the plays at the end to win the game.

As for Ramsey, I don't know about him. Maybe he was just too scarred from the Spurrier years, but if he was going to make it in DC he probably would have done it by now.

I would keep Ramsey off the field for the rest of the season, he can only hurt his trade value now and if he comes off the bench and throws for 350 with 3tds and no picks against anyone then all it does is cast more doubt on Gibbs' decision to go with Brunell.

Twilbert07 · 12-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

Ok what has Ramsey ever lead us too?

I'm not calling for Ramsey. I'm just saying that the jury still is out on Brunell. He had a good stretch starting with the fourth quarter of the Dallas game but has been only OK recently (as in 2-6 as a starter in the past eight games). I know it all does not lie with the QB, but winning QBs are winning QBs because of their teams' records.

FirstandTen · 12-01-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

I'm not calling for Ramsey. I'm just saying that the jury still is out on Brunell. He had a good stretch starting with the fourth quarter of the Dallas game but has been only OK recently (as in 2-6 as a starter in the past eight games). I know it all does not lie with the QB, but winning QBs are winning QBs because of their teams' records.

We all know Brunell is not a Top QB whats ur point?

Twilbert07 · 12-01-2005, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

We all know Brunell is not a Top QB whats ur point?

Just what I said in my previous post: The jury's still out on him, and we need to consider our options at QB for next season. Brunell is the perfect veteran back-up who Gibbs likes to have around. His record as a starter this year (4-6), regardless of whose fault the close losses are, doesn't cut it, in my opinion. Are you satisfied with a losing team this year?

NFLeurope · 12-01-2005, 06:32 PM

Hey guys... I started this thread not to rehash the old who would be better in leading the redskins Brunell or Ramsey...

That topic i believe has been discussed ad nauseum and there really is no way to come to a conclusion...since we have only seen brunell play and not ramsey...so noone can truely know how ramsey would have done...that is ultimately an opinion...and everyone is entitled to his own opinion.

The purpose though...was to allude to the dillema that the skins now face. Brunell certainly has performed relatively well this year... But he is getting older!

It is a generally established principle that QB's do not hit their primes in their late 30's... So while i am going to root for Brunell to play like peyton manning as long as he is starting for this team...i think it is realistic to ask ourselves what other options we have.

In my mind, whether or not people think Ramsey is better than Brunell is not really the point. The point is...whether he gives us a much better chance to win than Cambell at this point. If Cambell is not going to be ready to be a starting NFL QB next year than even the people who dont particulary like Ramsey might admit that he could have great value to this team next year.

If he fulfills his potential and has a great end of this season, offseason, or preseason, and becomes a viable starting QB and wins the job for next year great!... It will mean he gives us a better chance to win than brunell and brunell can be a wonderful backup.

If Brunell wins the job and gets injured in the season...then we have at least a proven backup QB...(Ramsey went 3-4 last season as a starter...and so far Brunell has gone 5-6)

If Brunell goes the whole season without getting injured...and remains the starter..than hey...at least we had a good insurance policy for the whole year...and Ramsey becomes a free agent...we lose a 3rd/or 4th rounder we could have gotten for Ramsey in a trade this year...but we bought an extra year for Cambell to develop...and hopefully he is ready to take over for Brunell starting in his 3rd year.

In my book those different scenarios point to us needing to retain Ramsey for next year.

NFLeurope · 12-01-2005, 06:56 PM

Also... if i may add...i think people really ought to distinguish between who WHO GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN. And WHO SHOULD PLAY. The two are usually identical...but they dont neccessarily have to be.

One example that comes to mind is that of the bengals declaring carson Palmer the starter after john Kitna had just had a really good season and brought the team to its first non losing season in a ridiculously long time.

In this instance the bengals did not declare Palmer the starter because he gave them the best chance to win. They declared him the starter because they knew that they had invested a great deal into him...and that before leading the team to winning football he would have to get out his growing pains.

The team held the development of their QB of the future above the desire to win immediately. It is that vision that i believe some people are not taking into account. The skins have been losing for sooooo long that there is enormous pressure to just win now. But what about if playing Ramsey, while not giving us the best immediate chance to win, would have been a case of placing the future of the franchise above the need to win immediately. After all...the only way for a QB to get through his growing pains...is to play on sundays.

This is not to say i am advocating switching to Ramsey now...with 5 games left...while we still have a chance to make the playoffs... However, if we are out of the playoff hunt at some point, then i would be for Gibbs playing Ramsey or Cambell in place of Brunell, thereby sacrificing the best chance to win immediately, in hopes of winning alot more later on... Just some food for thought.

Defensewins · 12-01-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

Hey guys... I started this thread not to rehash the old who would be better in leading the redskins Brunell or Ramsey....

NFLeurope
Neither one is the answer. Campbell is the future, Gibbs is grooming Campbell just like he groomed Rypien. He will not rush Campbell into service and ruin him. I think Campbell will be the starter next year and he may start some games at the end of this year.

Ramsey is not the answer. I have never seen what some of the big Ramsey fans on this sight see in him. To me Ramsey is slow on his feet, slow to get rid of the ball, which in turn makes him take alot of sacks and most importantly Ramsey makes too many critical mistakes. He reminds me of Bledsoe, flashes some good, but overall I do not want a Bledsoe type of QB for the Redskins.
I want someone that senses and can escape the pash rush better than Ramsey. Someone that makes fewer mistakes and is quick to get rid of the ball. Holding the ball as long as Ramsey does is just asking for trouble.

12-01-2005, 04:26 PM	#76
hail_2_da_skins Impact Rookie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 70 Posts: 868	Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell... I seriously thought Brunnel was washed up. I applauded the Brunnel benching and the move to starting Ramsey and naming him the starter for 2005. It was quite apparent during the preseason, Brunnel put the team in a better position to win. Ramsey was not progressing. What is the cost of a quality starting quarterback? In the NFL, I would say very high. Whether you like him or not, you would have to agree that Brunnel has performed admiringly. Ramsey needs to move on and find out if he can start in the NFL. I just don't see that happening in Washington. The Skins need draft picks to beef up the defensive line and an athletic/physical wide receiver (not TO). They especially need a pass rushing defensive end. That is priority one. I was very disappointed with last year's draft. Defensive end and wide receiver should have been on the board last year. Here are some defensive ends that were drafted fourth round or beyond. Chauncey Davis ATL 6'1" 258 lbs. Florida St. Chris Canty DAL 6'7" 295 lbs. Virginia __________________ "HAIL TO THE SKINS"

12-01-2005, 04:27 PM	#77
scowan The Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: KY Age: 57 Posts: 1,559	Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell... Guys, Brunell had a 96.83 QB rating last week and did not turn the ball over and we lost. Our loses are more on the D than anything Brunell has or has not done this year. He has an 86.8 rating for the year, which is higher than Ramsey has ever had. We have had 4th Quarter meltdowns because we could not get our D off the field. Ramsey is not the answer. Playing D in the 4th Qtr is the answer.

12-01-2005, 04:38 PM	#80
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 64 Posts: 10,672	Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell... i not saying anything negative at all about brunell except for his age.he cant play forever.then who will be our next qback?its basically unheard of having 2 number one draft picks at such a close age on one team

12-01-2005, 04:42 PM	#84
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 54 Posts: 960	Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell... To me a qb can't have a good game in a close loss. His rating doesn't mean squat if he can't make the plays at the end to win the game. As for Ramsey, I don't know about him. Maybe he was just too scarred from the Spurrier years, but if he was going to make it in DC he probably would have done it by now. I would keep Ramsey off the field for the rest of the season, he can only hurt his trade value now and if he comes off the bench and throws for 350 with 3tds and no picks against anyone then all it does is cast more doubt on Gibbs' decision to go with Brunell.

12-01-2005, 06:32 PM	#88
NFLeurope Camp Scrub Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 85	Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell... Hey guys... I started this thread not to rehash the old who would be better in leading the redskins Brunell or Ramsey... That topic i believe has been discussed ad nauseum and there really is no way to come to a conclusion...since we have only seen brunell play and not ramsey...so noone can truely know how ramsey would have done...that is ultimately an opinion...and everyone is entitled to his own opinion. The purpose though...was to allude to the dillema that the skins now face. Brunell certainly has performed relatively well this year... But he is getting older! It is a generally established principle that QB's do not hit their primes in their late 30's... So while i am going to root for Brunell to play like peyton manning as long as he is starting for this team...i think it is realistic to ask ourselves what other options we have. In my mind, whether or not people think Ramsey is better than Brunell is not really the point. The point is...whether he gives us a much better chance to win than Cambell at this point. If Cambell is not going to be ready to be a starting NFL QB next year than even the people who dont particulary like Ramsey might admit that he could have great value to this team next year. If he fulfills his potential and has a great end of this season, offseason, or preseason, and becomes a viable starting QB and wins the job for next year great!... It will mean he gives us a better chance to win than brunell and brunell can be a wonderful backup. If Brunell wins the job and gets injured in the season...then we have at least a proven backup QB...(Ramsey went 3-4 last season as a starter...and so far Brunell has gone 5-6) If Brunell goes the whole season without getting injured...and remains the starter..than hey...at least we had a good insurance policy for the whole year...and Ramsey becomes a free agent...we lose a 3rd/or 4th rounder we could have gotten for Ramsey in a trade this year...but we bought an extra year for Cambell to develop...and hopefully he is ready to take over for Brunell starting in his 3rd year. In my book those different scenarios point to us needing to retain Ramsey for next year. Last edited by NFLeurope; 12-01-2005 at 06:58 PM.

12-01-2005, 06:56 PM	#89
NFLeurope Camp Scrub Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 85	Re: Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell... Also... if i may add...i think people really ought to distinguish between who WHO GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN. And WHO SHOULD PLAY. The two are usually identical...but they dont neccessarily have to be. One example that comes to mind is that of the bengals declaring carson Palmer the starter after john Kitna had just had a really good season and brought the team to its first non losing season in a ridiculously long time. In this instance the bengals did not declare Palmer the starter because he gave them the best chance to win. They declared him the starter because they knew that they had invested a great deal into him...and that before leading the team to winning football he would have to get out his growing pains. The team held the development of their QB of the future above the desire to win immediately. It is that vision that i believe some people are not taking into account. The skins have been losing for sooooo long that there is enormous pressure to just win now. But what about if playing Ramsey, while not giving us the best immediate chance to win, would have been a case of placing the future of the franchise above the need to win immediately. After all...the only way for a QB to get through his growing pains...is to play on sundays. This is not to say i am advocating switching to Ramsey now...with 5 games left...while we still have a chance to make the playoffs... However, if we are out of the playoff hunt at some point, then i would be for Gibbs playing Ramsey or Cambell in place of Brunell, thereby sacrificing the best chance to win immediately, in hopes of winning alot more later on... Just some food for thought.

Thoughts on Ramsey and Brunell...

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