Brunell & Other Offseason Moves (Merged Thread)

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And there's always potential trades to pick up additional picks... Ramsey, LaVar??

Speaking of Lavar, did anyone notice him getting yanked when we gave up the first down on that screen to his side, I wonder who missed their assingnment?

Matty I would love to get anything for Lavar at this point, I just don't believe after this season he has much value.

Do you think it's wise to trade Ramsey at this point?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I don't much disagree with most of this post but I wouldn't call our draft pciks next to nothing. A second rounder will be a quality guy for us if choosen well. And good depth guys are always available in the 4th. It's not like all our picks are turds.

I didn't even think we had a #2, still a late 2, other than Cooley in the third who do we have to show in the later rounds, or even the second round? I believe Jansen was our last real good second rounder, if there are others I am unaware.

Dockery, I guess but he's not a world beater that's for sure.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by offiss

I kinda believe that our offensive woe's are due to his inability to take chances downfield, late in the game when there's nothing to lose he will take shots, kind of funny how things start opening up on offense when he has done that.

So if he runs the plays as he's told and takes a coverage sack, that's his fault? If the pocket folds and he's got nobody to throw to, and he dances and throws it away, you're blaming him?

And where is that third receiver he's supposed to check down to, that you're alluding to?

The reason "things start opening up on offense when he has done that" (taking chances downfield late in the game) is because the defense is typically playing a prevent, not because Brunell is magically deciding to "take chances"...

I'm not saying he is a great QB at this stage in his career. But I think you are naive if you think that making a change at QB is going to fix the "woes" of our offense. Which, I might add, didn't seem too woeful before we entered the playoffs. Coincidence?

How about fatigue.

[dgack]

The front office and finding quality players in late rounds is where the Skins made their living in the 80's and 90's, and I've said it before, it's absolutely where we've SUCKED IT during the Danny Snyder reign.

I don't know much about Vinny Cerrato, but we need to get some Bobby Beathard-style help up there to the front office to make sure we're finding those diamonds in the rough. Cooley's a start.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

Speaking of Lavar, did anyone notice him getting yanked when we gave up the first down on that screen to his side, I wonder who missed their assingnment?

Matty I would love to get anything for Lavar at this point, I just don't believe after this season he has much value.

Do you think it's wise to trade Ramsey at this point?

I definitely think LaVar would have some value, I don't think anybody would want him with his current deal but if he were to agree to sign a new deal upon being traded I definitely think there's a market for him.

As for Ramsey who knows. I certainly wouldn't want to deal him, I think he could still have a shot at being the starter next year but it's all up to him. If he feels he doesn't have a realistic shot here he could ask to be traded. I guess we'll see how things play out.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by offiss

Speaking of Lavar, did anyone notice him getting yanked when we gave up the first down on that screen to his side, I wonder who missed their assingnment?

Matty I would love to get anything for Lavar at this point, I just don't believe after this season he has much value.

Do you think it's wise to trade Ramsey at this point?

I think Lavar would command a huge ammount of value. I would be surprised if a late 1st and possibly a later round pick was the best we could get. Seems to me most of the league still thinks he is a great LB. (I think he is but that's another matter.) The out of position stuff isn't new but it simply didn't fit so well here so far. Other teams will ignore that in lew of the great athleticism and game changing abilities. Unless of course they think we are going to cut him. Then we'll get nothing or next to nothing. It is probably the biggest off-season story for this team.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by dgack

So if he runs the plays as he's told and takes a coverage sack, that's his fault? If the pocket folds and he's got nobody to throw to, and he dances and throws it away, you're blaming him?

And where is that third receiver he's supposed to check down to, that you're alluding to?

The reason "things start opening up on offense when he has done that" (taking chances downfield late in the game) is because the defense is typically playing a prevent, not because Brunell is magically deciding to "take chances"...

I'm not saying he is a great QB at this stage in his career. But I think you are naive if you think that making a change at QB is going to fix the "woes" of our offense. Which, I might add, didn't seem too woeful before we entered the playoffs. Coincidence?

How about fatigue.

You should read everything before you write, I said it could possibly be Brunell playing it safe because that's how Gibbs want's it. So defense's are playing prevent when there only up 1 score? What defenses were the cowboys and the giant's in? Fatigue I am curious what does our offense have to be fatigued about? until the Tampa game [reg season] they did nothing, if anyone has the right to be tired it's our defense, and once again they overwhemingly outplayed our offense.

The reason our offense took off when we hit the cowboy's the second time is because Portis and some of the other players had a meeting with Gibbs and told him we have to stop trying to run the clock out in the second quarter, and so he started to push the offense, and guess what, we went on a tare. But as the games became more important Gibbs became more and more conservative, or Brunell was to scared to take shots downfield, take your pick, because it's one or the other, fatigue had nothing to do with our offense, their one of the most rested offensive unit's in the league.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I definitely think LaVar would have some value, I don't think anybody would want him with his current deal but if he were to agree to sign a new deal upon being traded I definitely think there's a market for him.

As for Ramsey who knows. I certainly wouldn't want to deal him, I think he could still have a shot at being the starter next year but it's all up to him. If he feels he doesn't have a realistic shot here he could ask to be traded. I guess we'll see how things play out.

I agree on Ramsey, I am just not sold on the fact the Lavar has real trade value, but I do hope your right.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

I like many other fans love when preseason games start normally just to see the skins playing again, but this year I think there will be a lot more interest for once in how our backups play because I believe they will be lead by Campbell. His play in the preseaon will tell us a lot about the teams direction in the near future. Ramsey will get us a decent 3-4rd draft pick or possibly even a player for player swap. Wr is a position that must be addressed for a big bodied, decently speedy 3rd wr who has the ability to step up as a 2wr type threat when needed. O-line will have some back up adjustments with the likely cut of Raymer and the impending retirement of Brown. There's also the possibility of letting Harris go and get some new younger cbs in the fold, but the depth of the rest of our secondary is pretty solid. A consistent young de who can play the run and get push off the edge agains the pass at times would also be nice. And we need a new kicker like Conor Hughes out of UVA or Stephen Gostkowski of Memphis or hope Brandon Coutu of Georgia comes out early. None of these are the dramatic additions we've grown used to in recent seasons but these small adjustments could pay huge dividends next season if they get the right people into these positions of need.

[dag]

I'm worried about CP's health. Since the 4th quarter of the Philly game, he's been utterly ineffective. Maybe it was the defenses, but we had no running game at all for nine straight quarters.

We have a desparate need at wide receiver. I would even consider Terrell Owens, but only for a one-year deal, with small bonus money, but heavy duty incentives. Basically make it so financially attractive for Owens to keep his mouth shut and be, well, if not a good teammate, at least not an awful teammate.

We also need a tight end, and offensive line help.

Medium term need is quarterback. We maybe get another year out of Brunell. But if they can be opportunistic and pick someone up in the 5th or 6th round, maybe take a chance.

And, I realize this may be heretical, but let Arrington go. He wasn't even that good this year. He's undisciplined and hasn't really bought into Greg Williams' system. And given all the money they just threw at Williams, and the way Arrington's contract is structured, they need to spend that money on free agent additions.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I definitely think LaVar would have some value, I don't think anybody would want him with his current deal but if he were to agree to sign a new deal upon being traded I definitely think there's a market for him.

Remember his new deal wouldnt be as bad to other teams. They'd have him with no signing bonus but with unguaranteed roster bonuses and unguaranteed salaries. His cap numbers would be this(i think)
year 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
cap 6950 3855 6455 9105 11305 12905
rb 6500 1950 3050 3700 5400 6000
assuming we trade him before 2006 roster bonus.
So they woudln't ever get dead space on their cap if they didn't want and would get a quality LB at a reasonable price for at least 3 years.
Not too bad at all really.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by offiss

I agree on Ramsey, I am just not sold on the fact the Lavar has real trade value, but I do hope your right.

What makes you think Lavar has no value? What we think of him means nothing. It is what GMs think. Do you see them thinking he isn't any good?

[dgack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Fatigue I am curious what does our offense have to be fatigued about? until the Tampa game [reg season] they did nothing, if anyone has the right to be tired it's our defense, and once again they overwhemingly outplayed our offense.

Right, because the offense has just been sitting on their asses at home for the past 8 weeks while the defense flew around the country winning games.

Fatigue means injuries, both serious and the little nagging things that add up over a season. Fatigue means you had the hardest schedule in the NFL and a 3rd week bye, so you've been getting clobberered for 13 weeks straight before the playoffs.

Fatigue means Randy Thomas. Ray Brown. Portis. Brunell. Thrash. Betts.

You think our offense is the most rested in the league? Because we had 2 bad playoff games? Did you think the Tampa game was a no-contact scrimmage?

You know what's sad is when fans decide to organize into "offense sucks" and "defense sucks" camps and try to kill each other. The entire team was tired and if you can't see that, well, you're blind.

[BigSKINBauer]

I say we need a BIG reciever next to moss. I would absolutly love Joe jurivisious. I think he will be a FA this year. I liked him before he became dominant and actually got him on my fantasy team early off FA.

Otherwise i want a DE through FA or Draft. I don't want a big name like Freeney. But Kyle Vandn bosh is a FA this year. HE did great this past year with 12.5 sacks. I guess he is now a "big name" but people really don't know him. I would also love Darren Howard as he is a FA too.

Trade wise i guess lavar is gone. He does have trade value. I say package lavar with ramsey(two of my favorite players so i hate this) and trade them together. I place that comes to mind is the raiders. I think we could get either Randy or Porter. I know it sounds crazy but either of them would be great next to Moss. Moss and moss on the same team? Randy moss IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT a bad character player. I have always thought he was misunderstood. Really no joke. Collins is old and it seems people aren't comfortable with him. Give the raiders a great LB to compliment that beast they have on the D-line(derrick burgess-16 sacks). I think it is possible but i am a little emotionally not in my head right now.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Trade wise i guess lavar is gone. He does have trade value. I say package lavar with ramsey(two of my favorite players so i hate this) and trade them together. I place that comes to mind is the raiders. I think we could get either Randy or Porter. I know it sounds crazy but either of them would be great next to Moss. Moss and moss on the same team? Randy moss IS NOT IS NOT IS NOT a bad character player. I have always thought he was misunderstood. Really no joke. Collins is old and it seems people aren't comfortable with him. Give the raiders a great LB to compliment that beast they have on the D-line(derrick burgess-16 sacks). I think it is possible but i am a little emotionally not in my head right now.

The problem with trading Lavar is the cap hit that the Skins would take. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but he was given a large signing bonus just a couple of years ago and any money remaining from that would be accelerated onto this years cap figure if he is cut or traded. Moreover, I wonder how interested teams would be in a linebacker who had what can only be called a down year but who will still want to be paid like a top flight linebacker. I know the team took a huge cap hit (like $9 million if I remember) by trading Coles last year so maybe they would be willing, but I'm just not sure how realistic it is cap wise (I do realize Lavar is due a $6.5 million roster bonus on July 1, so maybe it would make sense, but probably more as a post June 1 cap causalty than as pre-draft trade fodder).

I really think Ramsey is a much more attractive trade option. It seems pretty clear that he is the odd man out in the quarterback situation and he still has one year left on a very cap friendly contract. Plus he has starting experience and three years of NFL seasoning. The Jets come to mind immediately as a team that might be interested in a relatively cheap, young quarterback (Pennington's situation is up in the air and they probably don't want to draft a Vince Young/Matt Leinhart type - if either of those guys were even available at #4 - when they are still paying Pennington all that money). I kind of doubt the Jets would give up such a high pick in the second round (I guess they would have #36 overall) but maybe a third rounder for Ramsey could be worked out. The teams do have a past history of doing deals since they did swap out Moss for Coles last year.