Patrick Ramsey Vs Philip Rivers

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I don't really agree with the assertion that the school you come from decides how good you're going to be in the NFL. Chad Pennington, prior to injury, had a very good stretch as a starter and he came from Marshall, a mid-major school at best. So did Leftwich and he's becoming a very good starter also. I think that Rivers would be lucky to reach Leftwich's level. Favre went to Southern Miss, they're not exactly a top school, either. Culpepper played at Central Florida. There's plenty of examples of guys who came from mid majors and went on to have success in the NFL.

I agree with you that the school you come from does not decide how good you will be in the NFL.
However that is as far as I agree with you, because the other small school players you mentioned Pennington, Big Ben, Leftwich, Culpepper, etc. all stood out in college and were the major reason their programs had winning records. Ramsey did not. His college career was just above average, he did not stand out and his college team was .500 one year and a loser his senior year.
His draft stock went up because of his workouts and play at the senior bowl. Big difference in college careers and in their pro careers.

[MTK]

LOL so now Rypien wasn't good enough to lead a team to the Super Bowl?

Umm, didn't he do just that?

Humphries wasn't anything more special than Rypien, check out their career stats:

Humphries: 89 TD's vs. 84 INT's, 17,191 yards, 56.9 completion %, 3-3 postseason record including a Super Bowl loss.

Now let's look at Ryp.

Rypien: 115 TD's vs. 88 INT's, 18,473 yards, 56.1 completion %, 5-3 postseason record including a Super Bowl win.

Perhaps the reason Gibbs let Humphries go was the fact he had 4 TD's vs. 11 INT's in the 9 games he played in for the Skins.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by offiss

So your solution is todd collins? So you are admitting you have no faith in Campbell?

So we would be 1 play away from a player who has never gotten himself off the bench in Collins? So basically what you are saying is Ramsey can't do the job, but a journeyman backup can? Now I ask you what do you base that on???????????

So what if he leaves without compensation, who would want a useless QB anyway? According to you, he's not better than Todd Collins, explain to me why the Chiefs are willing to let a gem like that walk away without compensation?

It's not like we have been a drafting machine after the 1st rd anyway.

So basically I am to surmise that you believe that BIG TIME TODD COLLINS, and JASON I HAVE NEVER PLAYED A DOWN IN THE NFL CAMPBELL are better option's as the #2 than Ramsey?

No plans for Ramsey? Hasen't Gibbs said time and again how important Ramsey is to the Skins? He has stated many times that the second most important player on any team is the backup QB. Yea Todd Collins as our starter, WONDERFUL!

Wow, apparently reading isn't fundamental.. I said Collins would be able to step in IF CAMPBELL FALLS ON HIS FACE IN THE EVENT THAT BRUNELL WOULD BE LOST TO INJURY.. 2nd grade version, Brunell is the starter, Campbell the backup, Collins the #3.. :frusty:

That has nothing to do with lack of faith in Campbell.. Honestly, I don't think either Campbell, Ramsey or Collins can lead the team to a Super Bowl next season.. I never compared Ramsey to Collins or Campbell or even Brunell for that matter. I said earlier in the offseason that I didn't think Ramsey is going to be an effective starter in the NFL and this staff clearly doesn't trust or want him.. Assuming we sign Collins, if he never gets in a game that would be ideal since he'd be the #3 qb..

I firmly beleive that Ramsey will be somewhere else by draft day... I hope you are 100% right and we get at least a 2nd round pick for him.. I'm done talking about it until then..

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree with you that the school you come from does not decide how good you will be in the NFL.
However that is as far as I agree with you, because the other small school players you mentioned Pennington, Big Ben, Leftwich, Culpepper, etc. all stood out in college and were the major reason their programs had winning records. Ramsey did not. His college career was just above average, he did not stand out and his college team was .500 one year and a loser his senior year.
His draft stock went up because of his workouts and play at the senior bowl. Big difference in college careers and in their pro careers.

I wasn't really making any point about Ramsey in that post. I was only saying that the school you come from doesn't have any bearing on the way you'll play in the NFL. However, I think that Ramsey can be successful in this league. He wasn't bad as a starter, he just wasn't consistent. I think that would have come with time on the field, but we may never know.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

LOL so now Rypien wasn't good enough to lead a team to the Super Bowl?

Umm, didn't he do just that?

Humphries wasn't anything more special than Rypien, check out their career stats:

Humphries: 89 TD's vs. 84 INT's, 17,191 yards, 56.9 completion %, 3-3 postseason record including a Super Bowl loss.

Now let's look at Ryp.

Rypien: 115 TD's vs. 88 INT's, 18,473 yards, 56.1 completion %, 5-3 postseason record including a Super Bowl win.

Perhaps the reason Gibbs let Humphries go was the fact he had 4 TD's vs. 11 INT's in the 9 games he played in for the Skins.

He was perpared to let Rypien go as well, only an offensive line that was impossible to penetrate saved Rypien our super bowl year, it's awfully nice to drop back and stand around until someone comes open without the worry that a defender will be remotly near you, because that was the case for Rypien, we were on pace to set the all time NFL record for least amount of sacks that season until we hit the Eagle game late in the year. He never did anything remotly significant before or after that SB season.

Perhaps gibbs could have reavaluated Humphries and had given him a little more of a chance to develope as the Chargers did, yes we won a super bowl with Rypien, but we were in the running to win another the following season and Rypien was pretty much done. As for Humphries? He continued to outshine Rypien in San Diego with a less talented team than we had, and was able to get them to the SB. It would have been interesting to see how he panned out behind that line from the 91' team.


Basically Rypien was a below average QB who was put into one of the most ideal circumstances that a QB could ever ask for, to his credit he took advantage of it for 1 season, but that was it, there were plenty of QB's in the league at the time who could have won a SB for us that year. Rypien was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wow, apparently reading isn't fundamental.. I said Collins would be able to step in IF CAMPBELL FALLS ON HIS FACE IN THE EVENT THAT BRUNELL WOULD BE LOST TO INJURY.. 2nd grade version, Brunell is the starter, Campbell the backup, Collins the #3.. :frusty:

That has nothing to do with lack of faith in Campbell.. Honestly, I don't think either Campbell, Ramsey or Collins can lead the team to a Super Bowl next season.. I never compared Ramsey to Collins or Campbell or even Brunell for that matter. I said earlier in the offseason that I didn't think Ramsey is going to be an effective starter in the NFL and this staff clearly doesn't trust or want him.. Assuming we sign Collins, if he never gets in a game that would be ideal since he'd be the #3 qb..

I firmly beleive that Ramsey will be somewhere else by draft day... I hope you are 100% right and we get at least a 2nd round pick for him.. I'm done talking about it until then..

Well here let me simplify things for you, why are you bringing a player in who you do not believe can lead this team to a SB if Brunell goes down? What is the sense? And so you obviously don't feel Campbell can get the job done, so where is your backup plan? I obviously believe that Ramsey can take us to a super bowl, so I have my backup plan set. You have admitted you don't believe in yours. So you have no lack of faith in Campbell? Yet you don't believe he is capable of leading us to a super bowl next season? Talk about a walking contradiction! Who then will lead us if Brunell goes down? he's obviously not on our roster, or in KC, so who?

Further more, yes you can say the staff doesn't want him, but if that were the case why has Gibbs kept him around for 2 years? It's no secret that he wanted out more than once, and yet Gibbs refused to trade him, or release him, Gibbs constantly states that he wants players who want to be redskins, well I do believe a request to be traded pretty much say's I don't want to be a redskin, and yet he's still here, I wonder why? Miami offered up a #2 pick for him and yet we didn't take it, you mean to tell me we couldn't have signed a Todd Collins clone off the waiver wire to backup Brunell the last 2 seasons? Thats a lowsey thing to do to Ramsey, stick him on the bench for 2 years while you draft a QB to take his place, all the while he could have traded him or released him knowing he wanted nothing to do with him, and signed a backup of Todd Collins magnitude until campbell is ready, whenever THAT may occur.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

He was perpared to let Rypien go as well, only an offensive line that was impossible to penetrate saved Rypien our super bowl year, it's awfully nice to drop back and stand around until someone comes open without the worry that a defender will be remotly near you, because that was the case for Rypien, we were on pace to set the all time NFL record for least amount of sacks that season until we hit the Eagle game late in the year. He never did anything remotly significant before or after that SB season.

Perhaps gibbs could have reavaluated Humphries and had given him a little more of a chance to develope as the Chargers did, yes we won a super bowl with Rypien, but we were in the running to win another the following season and Rypien was pretty much done. As for Humphries? He continued to outshine Rypien in San Diego with a less talented team than we had, and was able to get them to the SB. It would have been interesting to see how he panned out behind that line from the 91' team.


Basically Rypien was a below average QB who was put into one of the most ideal circumstances that a QB could ever ask for, to his credit he took advantage of it for 1 season, but that was it, there were plenty of QB's in the league at the time who could have won a SB for us that year. Rypien was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time.

Even if you take away Rypien's best season in '91, In 1989 Rypien threw for 3768 yards with 22 TD's and 13 INT's, which is still far better than Humphries best year.

I don't think you're giving enough credit to Ryp, he was a pretty solid starter for a 4 year stretch.

Humpries was solid as well, but I don't see anything that made him head and shoulders above Rypien as you're trying to say.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well here let me simplify things for you, why are you bringing a player in who you do not believe can lead this team to a SB if Brunell goes down? What is the sense? And so you obviously don't feel Campbell can get the job done, so where is your backup plan? I obviously believe that Ramsey can take us to a super bowl, so I have my backup plan set. You have admitted you don't believe in yours. So you have no lack of faith in Campbell? Yet you don't believe he is capable of leading us to a super bowl next season? Talk about a walking contradiction! Who then will lead us if Brunell goes down? he's obviously not on our roster, or in KC, so who?

Further more, yes you can say the staff doesn't want him, but if that were the case why has Gibbs kept him around for 2 years? It's no secret that he wanted out more than once, and yet Gibbs refused to trade him, or release him, Gibbs constantly states that he wants players who want to be redskins, well I do believe a request to be traded pretty much say's I don't want to be a redskin, and yet he's still here, I wonder why? Miami offered up a #2 pick for him and yet we didn't take it, you mean to tell me we couldn't have signed a Todd Collins clone off the waiver wire to backup Brunell the last 2 seasons? Thats a lowsey thing to do to Ramsey, stick him on the bench for 2 years while you draft a QB to take his place, all the while he could have traded him or released him knowing he wanted nothing to do with him, and signed a backup of Todd Collins magnitude until campbell is ready, whenever THAT may occur.

Ok, I'll answer question by question to try to clarify for you.. The only reason I suggested Collins is because he is familiar with the system, not to compete for the starting job and likely not even to play, and let me make this clear again, UNLESS BRUNELL IS INJURED AND CAMPBELL FALLS ON HIS FACE. Every team needs 3 QB. The whole 'magnitude of Todd Collins' & 'Todd Collins clone' is way off base.

I think, if pressed into action, Campbell can be effective and successful, but no I don't think he can lead the team to the Super Bowl next year. That being said, I don't think any qb can be expected to lead his team to glory after never playing a down in the NFL and being thrust into the position. Tom Brady & Kurt Warner did it, but it wasn't expected of them. If it happens, huge bonus for the Redskins, but I don't think many teams have a backup that will fit that bill.

Regarding the coaching decisions on Ramsey, I assume in the 1st offseason Gibbs and Co. wanted veteran leadership at the QB position and depth, therefore they kept both QB. Going into last offseason, based on the end of the '04 season they thought Ramsey was their starter. Obviously between then and the draft they felt that Campbell was a viable QB of the future and made the moves to go get him. When Ramsey was demoted and requested out, the front office made the decision to not trade your backup QB during the season with a 34 yr old starter and a rookie backup, a wise decision IMO.

BTW, http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15239

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Even if you take away Rypien's best season in '91, In 1989 Rypien threw for 3768 yards with 22 TD's and 13 INT's, which is still far better than Humphries best year.

I don't think you're giving enough credit to Ryp, he was a pretty solid starter for a 4 year stretch.

Humpries was solid as well, but I don't see anything that made him head and shoulders above Rypien as you're trying to say.

Hmmm, sounds familiar - two starting quality QBs, each with some solid strengths and weaknesses, neither one head and shoulders better than the other, and Gibbs picking the one he feels will be the best for the job. Can you remind me how that worked out for the Redskins?