Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Buster

Yes Brunell's game isn't where it needs to be, but we can say that about most of the roster right now. On offense, could it be the learning curve for the new system and will work its way out after a few weeks? MOST LIKELY!

again (and again), *WHY* invest those weeks in Brunell losing while he climbs the learning curve? then go through that torturous learning period again when its Campbell's turn??

Brunell starting was about "winning now". you see that happening? if someone is going to learn out there, it should be someone whose best years are AHEAD of him, not behind.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by skinnyfan

They run the ball 10X better than we do and Mcnair moves the chains unlike Brunell.

Well yeah...if we had Jamal Lewis, we'd run the ball 10x better too.

Wait for Portis.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Buster

In the last 11 years:

Trent Dilfer won a SB.
Kurt Warner won a SB.
Jeff Hostettler won a SB.
Ben Roethlisberger won a SB by throwing 15 times a game.
Chris Chandler went to a SB.
Jake Delhomme went to a SB.
Kerry Collins went to a SB.
Stan Humphries went to a SB.
Neil O'Donnell went to a SB.

We don't need a Pro Bowl QB to go all the way. Heck, we've won with Mark Rypien and Doug Williams, who was the backup QB most of the year to Jay Shroeder.

All the quarterbacks you named fall into two categories. Dilfer, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, and O’Donnell all played teams where their respective defenses were top five or higher for those particular seasons. All they had to do was put 17 points on the board and not screw up, and they could rack up 11+ wins for the season. Brunell doesn’t have the luxury of a top five defense(at least not at this point in the season), and I’m not positive he could put up 17 points, without the help of penalties and turnovers.

Warner, Hostettler, Chandler, and Collins were all veteran journeymen who had a nice one or two season run, in which they fit perfectly in the system they were in. Warner in particular, was the leader of one of the most prolific offenses ever. Brunell will NEVER break 30 TD’s or 4,000 passing yards in a season, so I don’t think these comparisons are valid.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by illdefined

again (and again), *WHY* invest those weeks in Brunell losing while he climbs the learning curve? then go through that torturous learning period again when its Campbell's turn??

Brunell starting was about "winning now". you see that happening? if someone is going to learn out there, it should be someone whose best years are AHEAD of him, not behind.

Based on last year, I still think Brunell knowing this offense would take us further than Campbell would at this point if he equally knew the offense. Campbell should get garbage time this year and take over next year. Remember, he still has not taken a single regular-season snap and until this year, hadn't even taken a preseason snap against another team.

I like that we're taking our time with Campbell. Most cases where that was done has worked out great...Steve Young, Brett Favre, even Mark Brunell earlier in his career. It's a rare QB that can be thrown into the fire right away and succeed, and I'm not sure Campbell is a Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by skinnyfan

181 vs the Bucs
143 vs the Raiders

That however isn't my point.....although it seemed that way. I hope your not trying to say that Mcnair has the same weapons that we do?? Or that Mcnair is scared to hang in the pocket and take a hit like Brunell. Or that Baltimores offense is the same up tempo down the field attack that we supposedly have. They run the ball 10X better than we do and Mcnair moves the chains unlike Brunell.

I was using the NFL's net yards, not the stats - my bad.

However, Baltimore's offense is about their defense. 6 INTs and 3 FRs in the first two games, with one for a TD. Their offense has 2 TDs and 6 field goals, and half the time they start their drives in field goal range (at least they did against the Raiders). By contrast, we've started in opposing territory exactly twice. Their offense is better for having McNair, granted, but I wouldn't point to him as an example of what's wrong with Brunell.

[12thMan]

I hate to sound so negative Buster, but garbage time will be shortly if we don't right the ship.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

All the quarterbacks you named fall into two categories. Dilfer, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, and O’Donnell all played teams where their respective defenses were top five or higher for those particular seasons. All they had to do was put 17 points on the board and not screw up, and they could rack up 11+ wins for the season. Brunell doesn’t have the luxury of a top five defense(at least not at this point in the season), and I’m not positive he could put up 17 points, without the help of penalties and turnovers.

Warner, Hostettler, Chandler, and Collins were all veteran journeymen who had a nice one or two season run, in which they fit perfectly in the system they were in. Warner in particular, was the leader of one of the most prolific offenses ever. Brunell will NEVER break 30 TD’s or 4,000 passing yards in a season, so I don’t think these comparisons are valid.

Campbell did see playing time last year in presaeson.

[Monkeydad]

[quote=Southpaw;217879]
All the quarterbacks you named fall into two categories. Dilfer, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, and O’Donnell all played teams where their respective defenses were top five or higher for those particular seasons. All they had to do was put 17 points on the board and not screw up, and they could rack up 11+ wins for the season.

Like Brunell last year.

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Brunell doesn’t have the luxury of a top five defense(at least not at this point in the season), and I’m not positive he could put up 17 points, without the help of penalties and turnovers.

We do have one of the top defenses in the NFL, as we did last year. When Springs is back and they don't have to play 3/4 of the game from 3-and-outs, I think this group will be better than last year's squad. We've only improved it. Our only major loss was Arrington, who was worthless to us last year anyways.

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Warner, Hostettler, Chandler, and Collins were all veteran journeymen who had a nice one or two season run, in which they fit perfectly in the system they were in. Warner in particular, was the leader of one of the most prolific offenses ever. Brunell will NEVER break 30 TD’s or 4,000 passing yards in a season, so I don’t think these comparisons are valid.

We'll have to wait a little longer than 2 weeks with no running game to see how Brunell fits in this system. Don't forget Saunders' QB in KC was a former Redskin. I'm not sure if that's worth anything, but it is interesting. Warner had big numbers that year but has since proven he's more of a grocery bagger than a star QB. He's really mediocre, but just benefitted from a good system. Our system IS proven, just not implemented completely yet due to the newness of it and not having the main part of the system, the top RB. I still can't blame Brunell for the whole team's struggles.

[12thMan]

I saw a brief interview of Springs last night, and basically summed up the defensive woes to a lack of swagger. He said the swagger will be back when he gets on the field.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I saw a brief interview of Springs last night, and basically summed up the defensive woes to a lack of swagger. He said the swagger will be back when he gets on the field.

duh! everyone knows you need swagger

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Buster

Based on last year, I still think Brunell knowing this offense would take us further than Campbell would at this point if he equally knew the offense. Campbell should get garbage time this year and take over next year. Remember, he still has not taken a single regular-season snap and until this year, hadn't even taken a preseason snap against another team.

didn't you just say it's a new offense? i just don't see the value of trying to teach this old dog new tricks. by all measures, he's already had alot more problems with it than anticipated. if we're not going to win now, then better JC win later, not MB.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Campbell did see playing time last year in presaeson.

Did you mean to quote me? I didn't mention Campbell. I was just stating that Brunell is not in the same situation as any of the quarterbacks mentioned.

[djdunick]

Brunell has got to be physically done. Heck Kurt Warner was bagging groceries when he picked up this offense and he became an MVP.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

I don't know why I forgot to bring this up before, but this is from Bill Simmon's NFL preview right before the season started...

To the dumbest plan of the year: the Redskins investing in two free agent receivers (Antwan Randle-El and Brandon Lloyd) and an expensive offensive coordinator (Al Saunders) to go with their expensive gamebreakers (Clinton Portis and Santana Moss) … only they're going with a washed-up Mark Brunell at QB again. How does that make sense? Does Joe Gibbs do this with NASCAR, too? Does he spend a ton of money on his cars and pit crews, then find the most mediocre drivers possible?

I think I wrote this off at the time that it came out, but seems like he might be right on.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Buster

Like Brunell last year.

Yeah... like Brunell last year when everything was running perfectly. As soon as Portis got a little dinged up, and Brunell was relied on to put points on the board, he fell apart.

Originally Posted by Buster

We do have one of the top defenses in the NFL, as we did last year. When Springs is back and they don't have to play 3/4 of the game from 3-and-outs, I think this group will be better than last year's squad. We've only improved it. Our only major loss was Arrington, who was worthless to us last year anyways.

Washington's "top defense" is ranked 22nd in the league, right now. While I do think the return of Springs will help, one player is not going to fix all the problems with the defense. Certainly not the main problem, which is the unit having to be on the field for 40 minutes of the game, because Brunell can't complete a third down pass.