Portis vs Bailey

offiss · 08-05-2004, 03:41 AM

Who do you think is better at their perspective position's comparitivly? Is Portis a better RB, than Champ is a CB? I will go with Portis, I know Champ has the rep. as being the best, but how much competition at CB does he have? I saw him get burned to many times last year, all though I now it's going to happen to the best of them, he just never struck me as an elite corner, compared to all the great corner's who have played the game, yet you could make a strong case for Portis being the best back in the league, amougst some tremendous competition.

SmootSmack · 08-05-2004, 03:49 AM

Are you measuring Champ and Portis against players all time at their respective positions, or current NFL players?

Winskins · 08-05-2004, 04:07 AM

If you are measuring them by current standards than they are relatively equal. Bailey is thought by most around the league to be the best shutdown corner in the game. On the other hand, Portis is one of the most dominant running backs in the NFL (5.5 ypc is highest in the game), whose vision of the field is heralded by many in the league.

Overall, it's apples and oranges if you ask me...

Hogskin · 08-05-2004, 10:15 AM

This season will tell a lot about the answer to this one. But the key thing to me is that the #1 RB means more to a team than the #1 CB. (Replace both #1's with #3's if you choose, or any other equal LOW number). The CB can only cover one player at a time (or one side of the field). The RB can go against any defenders or any part of the field he chooses to. The CB can only be involved in a play if the ball is thrown his direction. The RB can be involved in every play if the team so chooses, and can go toward any defenders on any part of the field. I think this trade will look like a laugher (in our favor) well before the mid-point of the season.

Champ sure did not "shut down" any offenses last season by his presence. He was on the field covering a guy every play, and our defense stunk up the joint.

BrunellFan · 08-05-2004, 10:19 AM

The CB position I think got a bit of a jump last year when the two teams that went to the Superbowl also had CB's that made huge plays deep in the playoffs (Ty Law, Ricky Manning Jr.), but I think the trade was mutually beneficial for both sides.

Its hard to compare RBs on skill anyway. I think Portis is the most complete back in the league this side of LaDanian Tomlinson

SkinsRock · 08-06-2004, 10:05 AM

Yes, a shut-down corner is harder to find than a great RB....BUT....a great RB can control the pace of an entire game, whereas a top CB can only shut down one WR, or make a play when the play comes his way. Therefore, IMO, we got the better end of the trade. It can be argued that they did because of the 2nd rounder, but sometimes that's what it takes to persuade the other team to get the deal done.

I know that there were many other factors involved, but lets make it simple...
2002-2003 Redskins: 7-9 & 5-11 with argueably the best shut-down corner in the league
2002-2003 Broncos: 9-7 & 10-6 with a top 5 RB
Hmmmm......

It will be very clear only a couple games into the season that the Skins made out better...
:headbange

That Guy · 08-06-2004, 02:30 PM

gibbs needs a solid running game to play, champ doesn't give him that.

SKINSnCANES · 08-06-2004, 02:44 PM

Id take Portis in a heartbeat over Bailey, and I would have said that last year. Bailey is good but i think hes overrated. He had a crappy year last year in my opinion and didnt deserve to go to the probowl. He could never shut down Toomer and a bunch of other receivers. And a cornerback rarely sets the tempo of the game.

memphisskin · 08-06-2004, 04:08 PM

Even considering that Bailey had a down year (Pro-Bowl) last year, he is still one of the top two or three corners in the game. Woodson and Ty Law are the only two even comparable. McAllister in Baltimore is probably more physical but not quite Bailey's equal in coverage.

I love Portis already and I can't wait to see him on the counter trey in the 4th quarter running around, through and over Cowboys. The top two backs in the league are LT and Priest. Jamal Lewis ran for 2000 last year, and has a SB ring to boot. I'd say Portis is no worse than 5th, only because Ahman Green ran for 1800 yds last year.

So objectively and comparatively I'd say that Champ is a comparatively better corner than Portis is at running back. Champ is easily top 3 and arguably the best. Portis is definitely top 5, but at best #3. Priest Holmes is a helluva back, and LT caught 100 balls last year.

Hogskin · 08-06-2004, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Portis is definitely top 5, but at best #3. Priest Holmes is a helluva back, and LT caught 100 balls last year.

I agree Portis is top 5, but don't make the mistake of saying he can not be better than #3 rusher. All of the top backs have some downsides going into this season. LT is on a HORRIBLE team (worse than last year). And only ONE of their 5 linemen is returning - the center. Priest says his pelvis problem bothered him all last season, but it is much worse this preseason. Lewis has a big trial scheduled for early november. His plan is to go to trial all week and play on Sundays with no practice. That's tough, especially with the major distraction. McAllister has taken off weight - that may improve his receiving yards, but "could" be a negative on rushing. And, of course, ther is (was) Ricky...

I'm not saying Portis is favored to be the rushing leader. But it is very wrong to eliminate that possibility.

08-05-2004, 03:49 AM	#2
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Are you measuring Champ and Portis against players all time at their respective positions, or current NFL players? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

08-05-2004, 10:15 AM	#4
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	This season will tell a lot about the answer to this one. But the key thing to me is that the #1 RB means more to a team than the #1 CB. (Replace both #1's with #3's if you choose, or any other equal LOW number). The CB can only cover one player at a time (or one side of the field). The RB can go against any defenders or any part of the field he chooses to. The CB can only be involved in a play if the ball is thrown his direction. The RB can be involved in every play if the team so chooses, and can go toward any defenders on any part of the field. I think this trade will look like a laugher (in our favor) well before the mid-point of the season. Champ sure did not "shut down" any offenses last season by his presence. He was on the field covering a guy every play, and our defense stunk up the joint. __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

08-05-2004, 10:19 AM	#5
BrunellFan Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 334	The CB position I think got a bit of a jump last year when the two teams that went to the Superbowl also had CB's that made huge plays deep in the playoffs (Ty Law, Ricky Manning Jr.), but I think the trade was mutually beneficial for both sides. Its hard to compare RBs on skill anyway. I think Portis is the most complete back in the league this side of LaDanian Tomlinson __________________ RIP Mark

08-06-2004, 02:44 PM	#8
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	Id take Portis in a heartbeat over Bailey, and I would have said that last year. Bailey is good but i think hes overrated. He had a crappy year last year in my opinion and didnt deserve to go to the probowl. He could never shut down Toomer and a bunch of other receivers. And a cornerback rarely sets the tempo of the game. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

08-05-2004, 03:41 AM	#1
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Portis vs Bailey Who do you think is better at their perspective position's comparitivly? Is Portis a better RB, than Champ is a CB? I will go with Portis, I know Champ has the rep. as being the best, but how much competition at CB does he have? I saw him get burned to many times last year, all though I now it's going to happen to the best of them, he just never struck me as an elite corner, compared to all the great corner's who have played the game, yet you could make a strong case for Portis being the best back in the league, amougst some tremendous competition.

08-05-2004, 04:07 AM	#3
Winskins Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wheaton, MD Age: 40 Posts: 282	If you are measuring them by current standards than they are relatively equal. Bailey is thought by most around the league to be the best shutdown corner in the game. On the other hand, Portis is one of the most dominant running backs in the NFL (5.5 ypc is highest in the game), whose vision of the field is heralded by many in the league. Overall, it's apples and oranges if you ask me...

08-06-2004, 10:05 AM	#6
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	Yes, a shut-down corner is harder to find than a great RB....BUT....a great RB can control the pace of an entire game, whereas a top CB can only shut down one WR, or make a play when the play comes his way. Therefore, IMO, we got the better end of the trade. It can be argued that they did because of the 2nd rounder, but sometimes that's what it takes to persuade the other team to get the deal done. I know that there were many other factors involved, but lets make it simple... 2002-2003 Redskins: 7-9 & 5-11 with argueably the best shut-down corner in the league 2002-2003 Broncos: 9-7 & 10-6 with a top 5 RB Hmmmm...... It will be very clear only a couple games into the season that the Skins made out better... :headbange

08-06-2004, 02:30 PM	#7
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	gibbs needs a solid running game to play, champ doesn't give him that.

08-06-2004, 04:08 PM	#9
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	Even considering that Bailey had a down year (Pro-Bowl) last year, he is still one of the top two or three corners in the game. Woodson and Ty Law are the only two even comparable. McAllister in Baltimore is probably more physical but not quite Bailey's equal in coverage. I love Portis already and I can't wait to see him on the counter trey in the 4th quarter running around, through and over Cowboys. The top two backs in the league are LT and Priest. Jamal Lewis ran for 2000 last year, and has a SB ring to boot. I'd say Portis is no worse than 5th, only because Ahman Green ran for 1800 yds last year. So objectively and comparatively I'd say that Champ is a comparatively better corner than Portis is at running back. Champ is easily top 3 and arguably the best. Portis is definitely top 5, but at best #3. Priest Holmes is a helluva back, and LT caught 100 balls last year.

Portis vs Bailey

Locker Room Main Forum