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02-20-2007, 12:47 AM
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#31 | |
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\m/
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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He also had disasters such as Westbrook punching out Davis and issues with Albert Connell go down on his watch. Let's not absolve him all of blame now, he stinks as a head coach and he'll prove it for the 3rd time in San Diego. |
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02-20-2007, 12:54 AM
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#32 |
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MVP
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
Norv is a good guy. Good OC and QB mentor. He sucked the life force out of us here but let's be honest. We hung onto him way too long so not everything can be blamed on him. I hope he can pull it together and do a good job out there. Maybe more nice guys like Norv can do good things in the NFL. Get rid of the hard asses like Parcells and Coughlin.
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02-20-2007, 07:32 AM
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#33 |
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MVP
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
tafkas I'm wondering, Dennis Green? why are NFL( and all sports teams) so afraid of hiring new, inexperienced coaches? all we keep seeing are the same old, recycled guys. hell, if J.K.C wouldn't have given coach Gibbs a chance, maybe we turn into the Arizona cardinals. and that isn't a good thing
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"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan |
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02-20-2007, 07:54 AM
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#34 | |
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Uncle Phil
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,256
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You |
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02-20-2007, 09:21 AM
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#35 | |
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Pro Bowl
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 50
Posts: 5,311
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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Connell was a head case -- nothing more. You want to blame Norv for his mental capacity too? Connell was kicked off the team. What else did you want? Norv is supposed to be a psycho-therapist as well as his other responsibilities as a head coach/O-coordinator? Turner was the coach when the pendulum swung the other way for the Redskins. He was there for the wrong cycle. |
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02-20-2007, 10:05 AM
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#36 | |
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Living Legend
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 36
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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Somebody had to follow Gibbs I. Turner's Raiders offenses look like the "greatest show on grass slightly below sea level" compared to the one they trotted out this year (His QB was every bit as bad as the bozos they have now). The guy knows his offense. If Gannon didn't get hurt in 04, that may have been a playoff team.
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according to a source with knowledge of the situation. |
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02-20-2007, 10:30 AM
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#37 | |
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\m/
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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Norv was the one that made the call on the drafting of Shuler and Westbrook. Here's a good summary of his tenure here: SportingNews.com Blogs Super Bowl XXVIII would be the final game for both Dallas head coach Jimmy Johnson and Turner, as Johnson was ran off by owner Jerry Jones. Redskins GM Charley Casserly would convince Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke to hire Norv Turner to replace Ritchie Pettibone, who was fired after one 4-12 season. In the 1994 NFL Draft, Washington had the #3 pick. Reports started coming out that the ‘Skins was wanting to draft a quarterback. Tennessee QB Heath Shuler was projected as the top QB prospect, and rumors began coming out that Turner was interested in drafting him. However, reports began coming out of the NFL Scouting Combine that Shuler had bombed on the Wonderlic test, lowering his draft stock. Despite this, Turner was still interested in Shuler. Adding to that, Casserly had his eye on Fresno State QB Trent Dilfer. On draft day Casserly let Turner make the call, and Turner chose Shuler over Dilfer. The Redskins would also draft another quarterback in the 7th round, Gus Frerotte from Tulsa. The difference in opinion between Casserly and Turner would be a constant theme during Turner’s tenure in Washington. In Turner’s first season, 3 QBs started for the ‘Skins. Turner alternated between Frerotte and Shuler and later in the season Frerotte, subbing for and injured Shuler, beat the Colts in Week 8, winning the starting job for the rest of the season. That first season, the Redskins would finish 3-13. In 1995 Shuler started the season, but an injury in the Redskins’ season opening win against Arizona would put Frerotte back into the game. Washington finished the season at 6-10, highlighted by a regular season sweep of the eventual Super Bowl champion Dallas Cowboys, one with Shuler as the starter. In 1996 Casserly traded the #6 draft pick to St. Louis for DL Sean Gilbert. Frerotte was named the starter by Turner, with Shuler benched for the whole season. Washington began the season winning 7 of their first 8 games. However they would become inconsistent during the rest of the season, and finish at 9-7. Frerotte, RB Terry Allen both had big seasons, earning Pro Bowl trips. Shuler was released at the end of the season, and publicly criticized the Redskins organization, whom he claimed never supported him. Expectations were high in 1997; however Turner’s Redskins was only able to put together consecutive wins once, and with a 7-7 tie with the New York Giants, finished the season at 8-7-1. Casserly wheeled and dealed for defensive help during the 1998 off season, trading a first round draft pick for Cincinnati defensive tackle Dan Wilkinson, and signed free agent defensive tackle Dana Stubblefield. However the new personnel didn’t show to really improve the defense overall, and the defense ranked 28th in points allowed, and the Redskins finished at 6-10. In 1999, Casserly pulled out all of the stops. Casserly traded the #11 pick to Minnesota for QB Brad Johnson. The Redskins also took advantage of Saints’ head coach Mike Ditka’s man crush of Ricky Williams, trading the #5 pick for all of the Saints’ 1999 picks, plus a first and a third round pick in 2000. One of these picks yielded Georgia CB and all-around threat Champ Bailey. It was clear that the team that had the best off season in 1999 was the 'Skins. Behind the scenes, however, Turner and Casserly didn’t play well together. In 1995, Turner wanted to draft WR Michael Westbrook. Casserly wanted Joey Galloway. Much like the Heath Shuler bust, Turner got his way, and Westbrook proved to be a bust and a thug. The conflict would come to a head very soon. In May, billionaire Daniel Snyder purchased the team from the late Jack Kent Cooke’s family. Snyder had wanted to immediately fire Turner, but Casserly talked him out of it. Instead, Snyder fired Casserly, and gave Turner an ultimatum: make the playoffs, or else. The 1999 Redskins opened the season with a wild 41-35 OT loss to Dallas. They would go on to win the next 4 games, until they met up with Dallas again, and lost – again. After the game, Snyder reportedly took Turner into a room in Texas Stadium and gave him a major tongue lashing. The ‘Skins, however, would take advantage of a weak NFC East, winning the division with a 10-6 record. Stephen Davis had a breakout season, and the big-ego duo of Albert Connell-Michael Westbrook WR combination was potent. In the Wild Card Game, the Redskins defeated the Detroit Lions 27-13 to set up a Divisional Playoff matchup with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Trailing 13-14 late, punter and placeholder Matt Turk botched the hold for a potential game-winning field goal, ending Washington’s season. In 2000, with Snyder acting as general manager, the Redskins would go crazy in the free agent market, signing Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, and Jeff George, plus using a first round draft pick on LB LaVar Arrington. The reloaded Redskins were being hyped to be a Super Bowl contender. On the field, however, the Redskins were inconsistent. At the half way point of the season, the Redskins were 6-2. However, Brad Johnson went down, and the Redskins went into a slump, losing going 1-5. Standing at 7-6 and still with a shot at the Wild Card, Snyder fires Turner, replacing him with Terry Robiskie. The ‘Skins would only win one more game to finish the season 8-8. Much of the reason Turner stayed in Washington was not because of his ability as coach, but due to the uncertain future direction of the franchise following Jack Kent Cooke's death in 1997. Turner’s years in Washington can be summarized by draft busts, many made by Turner, as well as teams that were generally underachievers. Adding to that, Turner had problems dealing with attitude problems Albert Connell and Michael Westbrook, not a good omen for someone who will have to deal with T.O. |
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02-20-2007, 10:31 AM
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#38 |
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Contains football related knowledge
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
San Diego has good quality talent. Strong O-Line, solid defense. Norv will make the offense look good.
They will, however, NEVER win a superbowl or advance deep into the playoffs with Norv as the head coach. Some stupid mistake will bite them in the ass and sabotage their chances.
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Strap it up, hold onto the ball, and let’s go. |
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02-20-2007, 10:33 AM
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#39 |
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\m/
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY
Age: 52
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
Did anyone hear Jerry Rice's comments yesterday on Norv? He said when he played for him in Oakland Norv had "no control" over his players.
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02-20-2007, 10:40 AM
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#40 | |
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Living Legend
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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In the playoffs though (a pretty short span), that kind of factor is nullified by the increased energy level of the players. I think SD is a relatively safe pick to be a final 4 team next year, and maybe the SB champ. Then again, it's the NFL and no team--regardless of talent--has a better than 60-65% chance to even win their division. I wouldn't give any team a better than 20% chance to win the SB preseason.
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according to a source with knowledge of the situation. |
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02-20-2007, 10:44 AM
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#41 |
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\m/
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY
Age: 52
Posts: 99,573
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
Given all the drama and upheaval in their coaching staff this offseason I think it's going to take a toll on them come the regular season. Add in the fact they now have Norv I'll give them 10 wins at the most, and that's only due to the fact they are loaded talent wise. Even Norv couldn't mess things up too bad... or could he?
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02-20-2007, 10:56 AM
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#42 | |
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Uncle Phil
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,256
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
Quote:
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You |
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02-20-2007, 10:58 AM
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#43 |
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Contains football related knowledge
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
My point is simply that, based on my own observations of Turner's Skins' teams, his teams lacked the discipline to do the little things right consistently.
He has great schemes and can generally run up a score. Consistently, on Norv coached teams, the inmates were running the prison. Jerry Rice's comment is similar to a comment made by either Wilbon or Kornheiser during Turner's tenure with the Skins that the locker room seemed like club med. When that happens, even if they have heightened attention during the playoffs, they simply will make costly errors at crucial times. Teams have to practice focus and concentration. At the highest level, these are not skills that can be simply put in effect for a game or two and they are the skills that separate really good teams. In an otherwise evenly matched game talent-wise, which team do you think is more likely to make a silly mistake at the wrong time? A Norv Turner coached team or a team coached by Bellicheck or Dungy?
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Strap it up, hold onto the ball, and let’s go. |
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02-20-2007, 11:04 AM
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#44 | |
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Pro Bowl
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 50
Posts: 5,311
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
Quote:
The cycle started the moment Gibbs left and the roster was purged due to the advancing age of many of the players that had been with the team since 1980, and the impending change in free agency. The strategy, which was in place before Turner was named head coach, was to literally blow the team up and start over. Sure, there were mistakes in the draft. And the Wonderlic is as highly regarded as it is discarded by many throughout the league. Like I said, the word on Shuler and Dilfer was the same as it was Leaf and Manning, Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe -- 1 and 1a. Flip the coin, they said. The Redskins did and they missed. Look, I’m not going to spend all day defending Norv – the man had some serious flaws, I don’t think anyone denies that. You say he’ll crash and burn in San Diego despite enormous talent all over that roster. Fine. He just might do that. All I’m saying is that the state the Redskins were in during his time would have been enough to destroy ANY head coach. Look what we’re seeing that now with The Sainted One who has a roster that is light years away from anything Norv had. Funny how quickly we forget just how awful those Redskins teams were in the early to mid ‘90's. |
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02-20-2007, 11:05 AM
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#45 | |
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Pro Bowl
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 50
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Re: Chargers to Hire Turner - Era of Mediocrity to Begin
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