Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Threads

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Master4Caster

I've thought many times about Ramsey and why I liked him. Courage! The kid would take a hit and keep getting up.

It seems his strength was also his weakness. Not mobile in the pocket; held the ball too long; sometimes a poor decision (like no other QB ever did that).

...

We are better off without him. But the kid has courage and I hope he catches on somewhere.

Yup, that's exactly why I liked him too. I kept hoping he would catch on to the mental aspects of the game so that his courage would let him make some big plays.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

I do have to ask what was so great about Campbell last season? Did he do something above average, or was he pretty much below average[.]

In addition to an arm just as good as Ramsey's, I saw some incredible athleticism and instinct. I don't remember the game but we were on the 5 yard line or so, JC got flat out hit and still makes the throw for a TD. Several times at the home games, I saw him "feel" the open spot where a blitzer had come from and hit the hot read in that area. Again, I don't remember the specific game, but with a blitzer coming, JC lofted a nice 5-yard touch pass to a receiver who then turned it into a solid gain. Nice enough in itself, but, what made it really incredible, was that the play was clearly designed to go to the opposite side of the field - so JC: 1) felt the backside blitz; 2) avoided it long enough to turn and face the opposite direction; 3) tossed a sweet pass over the arms of the blitzer who was a yard or two away and closing fast.

I remember Ramsey making some nice throws and good plays, but they were always the ones accomplished by arm strength or toughness - not instinct.

In one-half of a season, I saw more athleticism and, more importantly, more football instinct from JC than I saw in PR's entire time with the Skins.

Ramsey may very well be much smarter than JC, but I think it is pretty clear that when it comes to having a feel for the game, JC is way beyond PR.

[Hog1]

As somebody said earlier, when do we stop making excuses for PR?
He's a nice kid with great potential. Always showed courage under fire in game situations. Strong arm. These are some of the things that endeared many of us to him initially.
Unfortunately, he rarely looked relaxed in the pocket. Looked and acted nervous in pressure situations and generally did not produce positively in those scenarios. Had tendency to make bad decisions, throw the ball to the wrong color, miss very makeable throws.
Nobody Jinxed him. Nobody killed his career.
HE IS THE MASTER OF HIS OWN DESTINY
In the NFL it is incumbent on the player to impress his coach's, that he has what it takes to be the star. To date in, PR's relatively short career he has failed to do so with at least two head coach's. If PR is so fragile that his confidence can be PERMANENTLY scarred by a..........set back, by GIbbs, maybe he does not have IT.
If he has to have a "specially built" offensive cocoon around him to succeed, maybe he does not have IT.
At his position, the NFL needs unbreakable, tough guy's.
Maybe.........................he does not have........IT

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Each one had more athletic ability. Each, as I remember, was able to move around the pocket and make time. Ramsey was a sitting target. Not once do I remember him sliding in the pocket or stepping up out of a collapsing pocket to create more time to make a play. In fact I distinctly remember watching Ramsey get sacked over and over again and not doing anything to avoid it. How many times did he drop back and just basically fall down as the guy got to him? Sometimes it even looked like a designed play...drop and fall down. Successful QBs do their fair share of sack avoidance and they use their atheltic abilities to do so. Peyton isn't any faster than Ramsey but he has good quick footwork and decent enough agility to use it to avoid maybe 10-15 sacks a year. Ramsey didn't ever show the agility to do it.

are you serious. who out here thinks Marino was more than a statue in the pocket. Williams, Rypien, Unitas, they couldn't move out of there own way. I am sorry, but I dont recall these guys being very "mobile" Ramsey, I agree was very challenged in the mobility department, plus he heald on to the ball WAY TOO long, which accounts for a lot of those sacks. Dude, seriously..Marino avoided a great number of his sacks because he had the ability to get the ball out faster than anyone has ever seen. Rypien, Williams had basically steel walls in front of them. If you recall, the redskins O-Line gave up what 9 sacks that whole year Rypien let us to the bowl, same for Dougy while he was playing. Lets not say they were mobile, I think all of us know they lacked that.

Bledsoe? how many times did he get sacked in his career? All most as much as anyone in history, why? because he doesn't move and holds on to the ball way too long. Unitas, are you kidding? he never moved. You make it sound like we need vick (OVERRATED) or freakin fran tarkenten or something.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Each one had more athletic ability. Each, as I remember, was able to move around the pocket and make time. Ramsey was a sitting target. Not once do I remember him sliding in the pocket or stepping up out of a collapsing pocket to create more time to make a play. In fact I distinctly remember watching Ramsey get sacked over and over again and not doing anything to avoid it. How many times did he drop back and just basically fall down as the guy got to him? Sometimes it even looked like a designed play...drop and fall down. Successful QBs do their fair share of sack avoidance and they use their atheltic abilities to do so. Peyton isn't any faster than Ramsey but he has good quick footwork and decent enough agility to use it to avoid maybe 10-15 sacks a year. Ramsey didn't ever show the agility to do it.

Well let me refresh your memory, monday night against the jets under SS one of the jets came on the blitz he ducked under him the player just missed taking his head off and then yanking him down from behind he then threw and completed a strike 40 yards downfield, there you go.

You can say he held the ball to long but he never had any time to hold it, no different than Brunell, only Brunell would throw the ball away the instant it was hiked, Ramsey had the guts to try and hang in the pocket and make a play with absolutly no protection, thats on the coaches. Of coarse all anyone would say about Brunell since he's been here is that he's afraid to hang in the pocket and make a play. Guys around here make it sound as if Ramsey had all day to throw, let alone just adequet protection, THAT WAS NEVER THE CASE!

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

I am curious, who on our roster was going to play ahead of Pennington? The fact is no one on our roster could make the Jets team [other than Campbell], they don't waste thier time with has beens and never been's, it's nice to see a team doing what they are supposed to be doing grooming a young guy for the backup position and as a future starter, who also could bring back a lot of value in a trade once he developes, lucky us we have no one who can step in and lead this team if Campbell goes down, and we really don't know if Campbell can lead?

I think it's an absolute joke that Brunell is being considered for the primary backup, A JOKE! Of coarse why stop now it was the biggest joke around the league when we traded for him.

[EXoffender]

You can't compare Ramsey's career to Brunell's in any category.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well let me refresh your memory, monday night against the jets under SS one of the jets came on the blitz he ducked under him the player just missed taking his head off and then yanking him down from behind he then threw and completed a strike 40 yards downfield, there you go.

To nitpick, I think he dodged LB Sam Cowart.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

To nitpick even more, it was a Thursday night.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

To nitpick even more, it was a Thursday night.

I stand corrected. lol

I know he actually out ran Sam Cowart for a big firstdown in that game, I don't remember who the player was that over shot him on the blitz.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

... The fact is no one on our roster could make the Jets team [other than Campbell], they don't waste thier time with has beens and never been's[.]

All I know is that Portis said that with Campbell's arm strength they should be having someone running the deep post every play. Sounds like he's got more than enough arm for the job. Plus, I saw more than a little sizzle on several throws. Strong as Ramsey's? Maybe, Maybe not. If you've got something definitive, I'll be glad to look at it.

As for the Jets not wasting their time on "never been's", they did, in fact, trade a sixth round choice to us for a "never been".

As for "better than Pennington" - TAKE THE DAMN JOB! THAT'S WHAT PENNINGTON DID! Right out of Ramsey's great arm and tough as nails attitude.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I agree SC... I think the most promising part of what little we've seen of Campbell so far is the way he handles adversity. He just doesn't get rattled.

I never saw that from Ramsey, he definitely looked rattled when things were going bad. With Campbell you can't tell if he just threw a pick or a 60 yard TD.

I gotta disagree. I remember when he was in his rookie season and Spurrier pulled Mathews to throw Ramsey in down 13 or 19 to the Giants, he leads a TD drive, the D gives one up, he leads another, and the D gets him the ball back. McCants fumbles the game away. I think he could have been a great leader. I don't think him getting the shit kicked out of him for the first few years of his career helped and then his confidence was destroyed when they brought in Brunell. I think he should have been able to overcome that, but he couldn't, that's his problem, IMO. I think he had everything I would look for in an NFL QB, (Mort agreed. He said he has 4 out of the 5 tools you need and he only lacked wheels) however, I think he needed to be the man and learn. He didn't really get that opportunity.

I know, we've all heard, "he never got a fair shake." I'm not saying it wasn't necessarily fair, but young QB's need to be able to trot out there and learn how to play without the fear of getting pulled. Kinda like the way Campbell did at the end of last season, now he's the unquestioned starter. Ramsey never got that chance. Regardless of the circumstances, if he were playing better it wouldn't have been an issue, but I just don't think he was ever allowed to become confident in the NFL.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by EXoffender

You can't compare Ramsey's career to Brunell's in any category.

As a far as thier Redskin career goes thats an easy comparison. Infact I can make a better case for Ramsey a young inexperienced player out performing seasoned vet.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I gotta disagree. I remember when he was in his rookie season and Spurrier pulled Mathews to throw Ramsey in down 13 or 19 to the Giants, he leads a TD drive, the D gives one up, he leads another, and the D gets him the ball back. McCants fumbles the game away. I think he could have been a great leader. I don't think him getting the shit kicked out of him for the first few years of his career helped and then his confidence was destroyed when they brought in Brunell. I think he should have been able to overcome that, but he couldn't, that's his problem, IMO. I think he had everything I would look for in an NFL QB, (Mort agreed. He said he has 4 out of the 5 tools you need and he only lacked wheels) however, I think he needed to be the man and learn. He didn't really get that opportunity.

I know, we've all heard, "he never got a fair shake." I'm not saying it wasn't necessarily fair, but young QB's need to be able to trot out there and learn how to play without the fear of getting pulled. Kinda like the way Campbell did at the end of last season, now he's the unquestioned starter. Ramsey never got that chance. Regardless of the circumstances, if he were playing better it wouldn't have been an issue, but I just don't think he was ever allowed to become confident in the NFL.

Well said!

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by offiss

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

This statement here, in a microcosm, shows why it is dumb to even discuss this stuff with you. You don't know what you are talking about. To say "no where's near" is a gross overstatement and to say "slightly" is to show how misguided you are. I'm done.

[SmootSmack]

To nitpick even more than AMD, it's "of course" not "of coarse"