Ocho Cinco In B&G

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

Going out and getting a Chad Johnson isn't suddenly the magic solution to all our systemic problems - especially when in my opinion, if we want to point to a weakness, I would point to our offensive line last year after the key injuries.

This is the best point in the thread. If we go out and acquire Johnson, we improve just a tiny, tiny bit--but the oppertunity costs far outweigh any potential benefit.

If Johnson has a career year here, we improve maybe a whole win in the standings over last year, but 1) its a bad idea to make a trade assuming a guy will be even better than he's proven (**Lloyd**), and 2) we could improve more investing picks and money elsewhere.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

I do think we are 90% there I think a D-Lineman & WR are our weak points on this team. We lost several games by a TD or less. TB, GB, DAL, NYG, PHI that's five games we lost by and TD or less if you look at the Giants they aren't that much better than us other than the D-Line & QB. I disagree I don't think it's all about money with Chad true he is 30 but he wants to win and he feels the Bengals don't accept him for who he is that's a passionate player that's an entertainer what is wrong with that?

I think we had a good, solid team last year. I think losing our coaching structure sets us back a good year because we are talking about the offensive players learning an entirely new system, and although Blatche may not change everything around the verdict is out on whether he is going to field a defense that plays at the same caliber as Williams.

I wouldn't say we are rebuilding but at the same time, this is not continuity.

Therefore, I feel like the notion that we are a few pieces away from contending for a Super Bowl, although admirable, is overly optimistic.

Here is the reality for us: We are a team with some solid veteran talent, some young talent (although I think we have some serious injury concerns with our younger talent), and some over-achieving younger players.

When our core of veterans really starts getting over the hill however, what is left?

That is why my perspective is, and always has been, lets use the draft and build our core instead of going and cherry picking stars that are going to sell tickets.

call me crazy

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This is the best point in the thread. If we go out and acquire Johnson, we improve just a tiny, tiny bit--but the oppertunity costs far outweigh any potential benefit.

If Johnson has a career year here, we improve maybe a whole win in the standings over last year, but 1) its a bad idea to make a trade assuming a guy will be even better than he's proven (**Lloyd**), and 2) we could improve more investing picks and money elsewhere.

got any proof of that?

we've got good starters on OL, and depth takes time to improve, so new linemen aren't going to come in and make an immediate impact (until at least 6 games in when they learn how the other guys play), but a WR could immediately. TO gave philly and dallas a LOT more than a 1 win advantage, and so did randy moss (both in minn and NE... oak didn't have a QB that could take advantage of him).

the only two spots where you could get a bigger immediate impact would be DE (which is still rare for a strong 1st year contribution) or getting phillips at safety.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

got any proof of that?

we've got good starters on OL, and depth takes time to improve, so new linemen aren't going to come in and make an immediate impact (until at least 6 games in when they learn how the other guys play), but a WR could immediately. TO gave philly and dallas a LOT more than a 1 win advantage, and so did randy moss (both in minn and NE... oak didn't have a QB that could take advantage of him).

the only two spots where you could get a bigger immediate impact would be DE (which is still rare for a strong 1st year contribution) or getting phillips at safety.

R. Moss was valued (purely on catch and value on passes thrown in his direction) at 51 DPAR this season. That is roughly a one win advantage (over the replacement level ish Reche Caldwell), or so my research on the topic has shown. This of course, doesn't account for how defenses alter their play to account for the threat that Moss brings, but you can only give a guy so much credit on plays he doesn't get the ball. Let's not act like Welker wasn't just as big a part of the Pats success as Moss was.

Johnson's DPAR was valued at 34, or roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of a win. But if he came here, he would not be replacing Reche Caldwell. He would be replacing Santana Moss, who is on the basis of the career, a lot stronger than Caldwell. Johnson is obviously an upgrade, but not more than maybe a 3rd of a win.

Johnson isn't Owens, and he isn't Moss. He's very, very good. But he would have a reasonably negligible effect on our team because it's not like we don't already have a competent passing game. It would just get slightly better.

I'm not sure drafting a guard with a pick that we would have traded for Johnson improves our team a whole lot in the short run, but if you think about where we will be a year or two years from now with no talent in the interior vs. a potential solid starter or even probowler, it makes little sense to argue that the possibility of an extra win this year is a good move when it costs us a few wins in the future.

None of that even begins to address the financial applications which make a CJ acquisition silly at best, and crippling at worst (depending on how many added restructurings we do to fit him in).

[That Guy]

he's not replacing moss. he's replacing el... or he's displacing moss who's displacing el, who's displacing caldwell. I agree the money won't be great, but he'll make life easier on the entire offense, not just his spot.

and while welker helped the patriots quite a bit, it was a lot easier for him to do so with brady, moss, watson, faulk, stallworth, etc out there leaving him with less attention.

and its impossible to judge a draft pick vs a proven commidity, but i have noticed everyone seems to vastly overvalue the potential of draft picks versus the reality of draft results. I do agree our OL is very near the end of its useful life as is, and that something needs to be done about it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

he's not replacing moss. he's replacing el... or he's displacing moss who's displacing el, who's displacing caldwell. I agree the money won't be great, but he'll make life easier on the entire offense, not just his spot.

and while welker helped the patriots quite a bit, it was a lot easier for him to do so with brady, moss, watson, faulk, stallworth, etc out there leaving him with less attention.

and its impossible to judge a draft pick vs a proven commidity, but i have noticed everyone seems to vastly overvalue the potential of draft picks versus the reality of draft results. I do agree our OL is very near the end of its useful life as is, and that something needs to be done about it.

Well, we just extended Randle El, so I don't think he's on the ropes or anything. Based on last year's production, Randle El is the better of the two, by a lot, so my point only gets stronger if that's the case.

Welker also had a ridiculous 77% catch rate, and that can't be attributed to anyone besides him and his QB. Welker and Moss made each other's jobs easier as is the case on most NFL teams with receiving cores. That's generally why I like to grade out the receivers as a group as opposed to individual.

The idea, of course, would be to hit on the draft pick, or to spend it at a different position. If we spend it on either line, or at the CB position, it's hard for me to see a situation that wouldn't help our team more than CJ in the long run. You always have the total bust factor, but huge busts can generally be identified. You have the Gallery-type slip through the cracks every few years, but when a team makes a bad pick--usually everyone scratches their head right off the bat.

[Oakland Red]

ESPN - Lewis says it again: Chad Johnson isn't going anywhere - NFL

Marvin Lewis is saving Snyder from himself. Chad Johnson is staying in Cincinnati.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Oakland Red

ESPN - Lewis says it again: Chad Johnson isn't going anywhere - NFL

Marvin Lewis is saving Snyder from himself. Chad Johnson is staying in Cincinnati.

All this stuff is a bunch of rumors being started. Chad J. probably isn't going anywhere. He's going to want a lot of $ and the Bengals are going to want a lot of compensation. Who is going to give up both? I doubt even Snyder would give up the draft picks.

[skinsfanzg18]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

All this stuff is a bunch of rumors being started. Chad J. probably isn't going anywhere. He's going to want a lot of $ and the Bengals are going to want a lot of compensation. Who is going to give up both? I doubt even Snyder would give up the draft picks.

hahah you doubt snyder would give up the draft picks??!!? are you nuts? danny will give up anyone and anything for big name players.

nevertheless, i would love to have chad and want him bad!

=]

[Longtimefan]

Until someone inside the Bengals organization contact the Redskins about a trade for CJ, any further discussion relevant to a trade for him is a moot point.

Vinny Cerrato said last night he was suprised when the story about a trade for CJ surfaced in the Wash Post last week. On Redskins Radio just last night, Larry Michael asked Vinny about the rumor related to CJ, he said that until the Redskins are contacted by the Bengals, any contact talk concerning CJ is considered tampering under league rules.

I have made mention of this point in at least two different posts' in this thread. See permalink #352

[Longtimefan]

BTW The Author of the article....... REPORT: REDSKINS WANT CHAD is:

Mark Curnutte.....mcurnutte@enquirer.com

[Giantone]

The Skins still have a very(very) young QB learning a new system,the Bengals have Carson Palmer(5th best QB) in a system he knows and perfoms in well.............why come here?

[schndr_tdd]

leave him alone,let him go somewhere else

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by schndr_tdd

leave him alone,let him go somewhere else

When DS wants something he usually gets it

[SBXVII]

The Bengals have stated they are not trading. I believe this is a moot point now. If the team kept pushing the issue wouldn't it fall under tampering? I'm suprised it hasn't yet. I know Chad has been the orchistrator but I would think we are walking a fine line. I wanted Chad but the Bengals are refusing to move him so lets look elsewhere and leave the Bengals to deal with an unhappy player who if they thought he was a cancer during the season then imagine him this year when he's unhappy and does not want to be there.

I would also stress that players need to honor their contracts. I liked that fact that GW put players on the bench. Maybe when a team has a player who is causing problems more coach's should be putting those players on the bench. The team won't get into trouble cause the player is in uniforme and is listed as active. The player will get bored sitting on the bench and will get the anger of the other players cause he is not being a team player to get on the field.

Either way it's the Bengals problem. Let them make their bed and lay in it. All we were trying to do is help them out. We need a WR and they need someone who will play their locker room games.lol.