Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate

[saden1]

djnemo65, don't you have any National Review or The Weekly Standard links?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.

Words can't expressed how happy I am to find that theres a group of people like me. I mean like I said before I love a lot of Democrats non-financial social policies, but the tax rates and the potential effect on a struggling economy as well as our private health care sector, in which case I'll be screwed if it takes me 6 months to see a neurologist, is to much for me to take a chance on.

(Also should have figured that Schneed would at the very least be an economic right given the work he does with the cap on this site as well as the fact that he calculates millions of dollars every year )

I honestly think that if the Republicans weren't such hard asses on minor things like gay marriage then it would be easier for people to vote for them, but instead they seem to choose not offending the extreme christian right (not attacking Christians but you're extremist cousins are not a group that I'm very fond of).

The War also didn't help their cause but I can't bring myself to disown a war that will at least give Iraq a chance to look like South Korea and Japan one day. I'll admit there seems to have been some help on the war on terror front but nearly enough to fend off the anti-war protestors. Anyway I don't know how much you guys agree with me on the war but Christopher Hitchens pretty much sums up my views on foreign policy in this video clip.



Either way I'm happy that we have now unoffically formed the conserative Bent Party aka the Crooked Party aka the Libertarians.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What do you mean exactly by McCain wants to stop Gay Marriage?

I appologize, I actually think I went so far as to create a straw man argument (for those that don't know Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which is ironic considering that I'm a McCain supporter. For those of you watching McCain does not support a ban on gay marraige, rather he would like to leave it up to the states. As he plans to be the case should Roe vs Wade be overturned. In fact heres McCains views on gay marriage

Ban on same-sex marriage is unRepublican; leave it to states. (Nov 2006)
Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)

On the flip side McCain has said that he does not support Gay Marriage (he does support private ceremonies and legal agreements that help with areas such as insurance)(

YouTube - Ellen Degeneres Vs. John McCain: Gay...

) but he's not going to go so far as to ban it federally. In other words when votes come up to ban it he votes against it. Likewise if votes come up to make it legal at the federal level he votes against it. Basically he wants the states to decide which for a Republican might be a wise political move though I obviously disaprove.

I also advise that anyone looking for a rundown of canidates views on multiple issues to google the canidates name along with "ontheissues.org". Now you could go to the actual site but I find it a pain in the ass to navigate as they don't have a readily useable search feature. Anyway heres McCains rundown.

John McCain on the Issues

[SmootSmack]

OntheIssues.Org is a really good resource, I check it frequently. Anyhow, I just wanted it to be clear that McCain isn't looking to stop gay marriages in that some would take that to mean he's for a constitutional amendment to ban them.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

OntheIssues.Org is a really good resource, I check it frequently. Anyhow, I just wanted it to be clear that McCain isn't looking to stop gay marriages in that some would take that to mean he's for a constitutional amendment to ban them.

Lol, hopefully now people will see that I was wrong and not hold it against McCain. Anyway now that I got my political fix, back to football.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.

I'm a card carrying member of that group.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Okay, I can dig that. But that definition is a little too abstract for me. What about those who don't or can't serve in the military. How are they to prove their love or defend our country? Surely that would leave out hundreds of millions of Americans, wouldn't it? Another thing, since you cite the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, how does the institution of slavery factor into this and more recently, the Jim Crow era, as it relates to our founding fathers and their ideals of sacracfice and service?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to see exactly when did America start loving and defending other Americans - all Americans.

I believe that patriotism is a feeling that should be conveyed in words, or, at the very least, is not a feeling we should try to hide. I think people should recognize the great many things this country has to offer and be proud of them. Unfortunately, I agree with some of the sentiments expressed earlier in this thread regarding the left. Many on the left will snicker, jeer and sneer at open expressions of love for one's country. In many circles it is definitely lame to fly a flag outside your home. To me, that is constitutes sheer "brattiness" and a failure to appreciate just how good we Americans have things.

However, I also believe patriotism is expressed through action. Failing to recognize flaws, or recognizing and ignoring them, is unpatriotic. Sacrificing liberty for safety is both selfish and unpatriotic. And, oftentimes, those on the right fail to recognize and correct the flaws in our past and present and tend to sacrifice liberty for safety.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I believe that patriotism is a feeling that should be conveyed in words, or, at the very least, is not a feeling we should try to hide. I think people should recognize the great many things this country has to offer and be proud of them. Unfortunately, I agree with some of the sentiments expressed earlier in this thread regarding the left. Many on the left will snicker, jeer and sneer at open expressions of love for one's country. In many circles it is definitely lame to fly a flag outside your home. To me, that is sad and sheer "brattiness" and a failure to appreciate just how good we Americans have things.

However, I also believe patriotism is expressed through action. Failing to recognize flaws, or recognizing and ignoring them, is unpatriotic. Sacrificing liberty for safety is both selfish and unpatriotic. And, oftentimes, those on the right fail to recognize the flaws in our past and present and tend to sacrifice liberty for safety.

Hmmm....so you believe patriotism is both a feeling and action. I like this.

[12thMan]

I gotta say one more thing, while it's on my mind. Just because it's on my mind.

I certainly respect every opinion here on the board, but boy did it bug the hell out of me that at the GOP convention tonight, their theme is "Country First." The sub-text being, if you're not with us, you're not putting country first. Or this is the party that has a corner on patriotism. In 2008 because I'm pro-choice, you're telling me I don't want country first? Or because we differ on taxes and government, I'm putting country first?

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I gotta say one more thing, while it's on my mind. Just because it's on my mind.

I certainly respect every opinion here on the board, but boy did it bug the hell out of me that at the GOP convention tonight, their theme is "Country First." The sub-text being, if you're not with us, you're not putting country first. Or this is the party that has a corner on patriotism. In 2008 because I'm pro-choice, you're telling me I don't want country first? Or because we differ on taxes and government, I'm putting country first?

Obviously it's political rhetoric and I think you are looking to deep in it. They just want a catch phrase like the Dems and "Change". Either side, it's bullshit really.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I gotta say one more thing, while it's on my mind. Just because it's on my mind.

I certainly respect every opinion here on the board, but boy did it bug the hell out of me that at the GOP convention tonight, their theme is "Country First." The sub-text being, if you're not with us, you're not putting country first. Or this is the party that has a corner on patriotism. In 2008 because I'm pro-choice, you're telling me I don't want country first? Or because we differ on taxes and government, I'm putting country first?

I personally think you're reading too much into that.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Obviously it's political rhetoric and I think you are looking to deep in it. They just want a catch phrase like the Dems and "Change". Either side, it's bullshit really.

Wait a minute, you're telling me it's just a slogan and they don't mean that? Because John McCain has certainly echoed those sentiments in a few speeches on the stump this year.

I was shocked, and quite frankly offended, to see it plastered all over the auditorium.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I personally think you're reading too much into that.

Okay, someone please explain it to me. Because I've honestly tried to not read too much into it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Okay, someone please explain it to me. Because I've honestly tried to not read too much into it.

I think you should probably explain why you took it to mean all the things you thought.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Wait a minute, you're telling me it's just a slogan and they don't mean that? Because John McCain has certainly echoed those sentiments in a few speeches on the stump this year.

I was shocked, and quite frankly offended, to see it plastered all over the auditorium.

Well I guess what I am trying to say is politicians say all sorts of bull and do another thing. You are right it is a bit offensive, but tonight what you saw at the RNC is something is pretty prevalent in politics.

I am sure some of his supporters believe that, but McCain knows its just a phrase to get support.