What's Wrong with the Redskins?

[SBXVII]

TakeUon, .....I agree...

Reality has sunk in....yes we're ahead of the curve for a 1st year head coach and JC is learning a new system,our O-line sucks...blahblahblah. Reality is....we average at best and have a LONG way to go!


Your right when you said a lot of us had high expectations. Whether it was because of the talent level and expected it to get better or simply after the first game we kept winning made people think that way. I, for one, did not expect much. I felt first year coach first year system means mediocre team. and true as the season wore on and we were winning I started seeing a bright spot. A long with all the chatter about SB aspirations......please. I know what the Giants did last year and I know people are saying any given Sunday...but you all have to be honest, all we deserve is to get in. We are not going anywhere scoring 7 points only. That does not make a SB champion.

BDB, One is execution. The Redskins over the past few weeks are not executing like they were the first several weeks. That's the same spin crap Zorn likes to give. Maybe it is maybe it isn't but for those who had ..."higher expectations"....they need to lower them a bit. Be honest with yourself...you actually believe that if they were executing well we would be SB material? be honest.....since when do SB WR's run more then one route that is shy of the first down? We run them all the time in hopes that the YAC will get us the first down. That's not something to rely on. It's ok to use once or twice in a game but as a WR you have to know where the 1st down marker is and get there...better yet go beyond maybe 3 yrds so there is no question when the WR is pushed back and the ref has to decide where you were at when stopped. Needless to say, I didn't think the Skins would be 7-5 at this point in the year. I was hoping the Skins would get 7 wins all season, and I think that's part of the problem as a fan. Expectations were heightened because of early success, and with the run they've had of late, all the Chicken Littles come running like clockwork.
If your refering to those who are speaking negatively then I guess you are considering yourself in that group. You said prior to the season you expected 7 wins. Now the ones who had their hopes dashed are being called chicken littles.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. Lord no. I do feel let down. However last week was one eye opening moment for me. I looked back and said wow.....who would have guessed a first year head coach starting a new offense would do as well as he has. No one. We were figured to be last in the division. I think we have a lot to grow on but the problem is we need younger guys. If we started a lot of young guys next year we are in the same boat. Only it would be young guys in new offense. I almost wanted to believe your theory but I can't get past the Atlanta factor. Why are they better then us? Why are they so good at scoring points? is it the QB? WR?

Hail, Campbell can't throw the deep ball. Every long ball is thrown underneath. take for example the interception by the Giants. Ok so if your a coach and you know this then have the WR run a curl route or slant. Are the coach's ever going to realize that we have apples not lemons so lets make apple juice or are we going to keep trying to make lemon ade?

[SBXVII]

Can we let both lines go and start over? lol. A long with Moss? Don't get me wrong I like Moss I just think he's JC pacifier right now and if we get rid of him maybe JC will look at the rest of the field.

[birdz4gibbs]

all i,m going to say is all in all it doesn,t look too good at the moment...

this team needs a good ole kick in the ass if you ask me..

they need help across the board on the DL/OL period and elsewhere.....again wait and see..

[FRPLG]

I'm not going to read this whole thread.

I DO think the O-Line is the biggest issue but it isn't the only issue by a long shot.

An honest evaluation would tell us that

1. Our o-line is old and slow - They get pushed around in pass protection and aren't as consistent in run blocking as in the past. A team can still suck on offense with a good line but it is virtually impossible to suceed with a bad line. It kills everything. Look at Indy. Saturday going down for them severely hurts their o-line and right now they are not very good offensively. They have a lot of talent but with no protection it isn't working very good.

2. Our Wrs are average at best - I LOVE Moss but he isn't a true go-to top flight #1. I've been trying to fool myself that he is but he really isn't. He is great in many ways. On a sound offensive team he can hold down the #1 slot and do a damn good job. But his lack of size and strength means he can't overcome being the only option on a limited offense. He is simply too small to leverage position against a double team and not strong enough to fight for balls down the field. The others are decent skills-wise and could maybe be good with some time and experience. ARE is miscast as a #2. His best work comes out of the slot and the evidence shows it. We have no true #2 and it hurts us.

3. JC is either not as good as we'd like or simply not proficient enough in this offense - I am starting to get the feeling that JC is not going to be a top flight QB. I think he can be very good. Again in a sound offense he could put up huge numbers but he isn't a play-maker so far. I am hoping this is his lack of experience in this offense but right now we are running a pretty thin offensive scheme and he simply isn't making plays. He seems to never want to put the ball in tight spots. This is the key to me. You look at the really talented guys and they all show enough confidence, to some degree, to throw the ball to a guy who isn't wide open. I am not talking about forcing balls but I am talking about redefining one's perception of who is "open" based on how good you think you are. He seems reluctant to step back and to try and throw a ball unless he can find a wide open option. I am hoping this goes back to #2 and having dimished confidence in the WRs.

Let's face it. Right now on offense we have 4 players who are clear starters in this league. Samuels, Portis, Cooley and probably Sellers could start for most teams. Then we have a 4 o-linemen who can all start but having them all start together on one line is a problem. Each of them is decent enough alone but none of them are good enough to make up for the simple lack of ability they have collectively at this point. ARE is miscast, Yoder is Ok as the 2nd TE and the other WRs aren't there yet.

Right now we simply aren't that talented on offense. It forces us to be one dimensional which is easy to defend. Especially since now that one dimension seems broken by injuries.

[hooskins]

I think that is a valid point about JC, the only one so far. he isn't comfortable enough to throw to open guys, he needs them to be wideee open.

[prinzeofmoval]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

At the risk of sounding like a major d-bag, I've got to say that it's kind of funny that a Colt supporter is accusing JC supporters of blind love.

Yeah only cause I've been following that kid since high school. If he would've played for a major college he would've got drafted sooner, but since Hawaii is looked as a system team he didn't. What was Campbells claim to fame? Hand the ball off to a pair of excellent running backs. He my friend was a systems qb and now we're showing why we're always the laughing stock of the draft.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by prinzeofmoval

Yeah only cause I've been following that kid since high school. If he would've played for a major college he would've got drafted sooner, but since Hawaii is looked as a system team he didn't. What was Campbells claim to fame? Hand the ball off to a pair of excellent running backs. He my friend was a systems qb and now we're showing why we're always the laughing stock of the draft.

Now this is just getting dumb. Who exactly is laughing at the Redskins over picking Campbell?

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

That's the same spin crap Zorn likes to give. Maybe it is maybe it isn't but for those who had ..."higher expectations"....they need to lower them a bit. Be honest with yourself...you actually believe that if they were executing well we would be SB material? be honest.....since when do SB WR's run more then one route that is shy of the first down? We run them all the time in hopes that the YAC will get us the first down. That's not something to rely on. It's ok to use once or twice in a game but as a WR you have to know where the 1st down marker is and get there...better yet go beyond maybe 3 yrds so there is no question when the WR is pushed back and the ref has to decide where you were at when stopped.

With execution, I can honestly tell myself that this team is a Super Bowl contender. They have the talent to hang with the top teams in both conferences. However, what separates the men from the boys is execution. Being able to win the close games, and blow out those you are supposed to. The Redskins can't do that right now. As I said before, whatever excuse or reasoning there is, the execution just isn't there. As you pointed out, running short routes on 3rd down kills momentum and execution. However, just because they are running short routes now doesn't mean they will continue to do so. I think a lot of the routes also has to do with a short amount of time that Campbell has to get the ball to them...combine that "blame" on JC and the O-Line.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

If your refering to those who are speaking negatively then I guess you are considering yourself in that group. You said prior to the season you expected 7 wins. Now the ones who had their hopes dashed are being called chicken littles.

Chicken Littles refer to those who think the season is blown anytime something wrong happens. There is a reason this thread is up over 180 posts...because we all think something is wrong, and may not be fixed before season's end. Am I a Chicken Little? Perhaps. This is a 6-2 team that is now 7-5. The experts felt the first 5 games of the year would be the tough stretch, and after the Skins went 4-1, those experts were thinking great things for this ball club. However the next 7 games have been completely backwards from the first 5. The Skins allowed probably the 2 worst teams in the league to hang with or beat them, and they got roughed up by 2 of the top teams in the league, perhaps the 2 teams that meet in the Super Bowl. While there is a sense of urgency, it's not the end of the world.

Coming into the season, looking at the schedule, I figured 7 wins for this team, with a new head coach, a new offense, and some growing pains would be a successful year...even coming off a playoff year. They've hit that 7 win mark, and have 4 wins to prove to themselves whether they "want" to be a contender or not. To me, that's a successful year. 32 teams have to go back to the drawing board each year to figure out how to win the Lombardi Trophy (or keep it). There is some measured success in each team during the course of a non-SB season.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I almost wanted to believe your theory but I can't get past the Atlanta factor. Why are they better then us? Why are they so good at scoring points? is it the QB? WR?

(Not sure if this was targeted at me or not...if not, I apologize for putting in my 2 cents) As far as the "Atlanta" factor goes, they are doing what it takes to win ball games. They have a decent defense that is bending (22nd in Total Defense) but not breaking (8th in Points Against with 20.2). And while Matt Ryan is enjoying success, it's Michael Turner and Jerious Norwood (2nd in Rush Offense) who are making it much easier for Ryan to find open receivers (White, Jenkins). While I'm not sure, I would bank that Mike Mularkey is keeping it very simple with the rookie, whereas Zorn has much higher expectations for Campbell.

[prinzeofmoval]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Now this is just getting dumb. Who exactly is laughing at the Redskins over picking Campbell?

Not Campbell I'm talking about in general. How many Campbells have we drafted? Outside of Landry and Sean not many of our draft choices pan out. If so we'd be as deep as the Patriots,Colts and other teams with many home grown starters not free agents.

[schndr_tdd]

Bench Jansen start Heyer..That will solve one problem,the right side of the line..Jansen had a penalty that cost them.He missed a block that kept us fro m a fourth down effort.Find a kicker!!!!!!!!! Whole week of practice of nothing but catching drills for offense and defense..A good down to earth ass-chewwing!!!And if Campbell doesnt get it going start Brennan.

[Mr.Redskin]

What's Wrong with the Redskins?

I'll drop the Science 101 stylie:

These are quotes free to all

"Its like cooking we put a chicken in the oven, get impatient and start to eat it but its not fully cooked and we get sick or we get impatient when its ready and bite into it and it burns our mouth."

"You have to let the paint dry." Stop "painting" the team with new coordinators every year. Were exhausting our players not buildinng towards a goal.

We have to be acknowledge that every cause has an effect. We have led ourselves down this road with poor Mgt. decisions. We've gotten players and missed out on getting future players in the market b/c of terrible contracts.

"Winning teams have guys to fit their system. " Our guys just do their job. This team runs just not properly.

I send emails that go unnocticed to the Redskins annually. I build a Madden dynasty every season and we win. Bring me in to console with Mgt Bi$*%es. Ohh, I just found my new closing for next years email.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by prinzeofmoval

Not Campbell I'm talking about in general. How many Campbells have we drafted? Outside of Landry and Sean not many of our draft choices pan out. If so we'd be as deep as the Patriots,Colts and other teams with many home grown starters not free agents.

We've drafted guys like Ladell Betts, Rock Cartright, Jason Campbell, Chris Cooley, Derrick Dockery, Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, Laron Landry, Chris Horton, Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery and found numerous UFA gems. Now, Chris Horton might not be Sean Taylor, but he's a damn good pickup for a 7th rounder. We haven't had a lot of draft picks to work with, but the guys we've drafted have been pretty solid. To expect a team to draft gem after gem isn't very realistic.

[SBXVII]

BDB, good points. again not picking so hope you didn't feel offended. With higher expectations I think any team is a SB contender, However I don't think the Skins are there. When a team hits the ...5 in a row or we won't go mark....they are not SB material. Do they get the ada boy for trying yes. The ada boy is being allowed to play in the play offs. Twice we have seen where that leads us. 1st round and your down. LOL.

Hell they make it to the SB then call me a chicken s#$! if you want but this team has to many problems to be a SB team. Funny how all this O-line issues seemed to happen around the time Buges had family issues. They started stinking up the joint when he left and when he came back it hasn't changed. It's like they forgot how to block or forgot their fundamentals. I'm not sure why the coincidence of timing but about the time Buges left this O-line has been on a downward spiral. Issues all over the place. I can't speak for the D-line. It had it's issues and we all knew them. but the D kept us in games.

Funny how teams are either offensive teams or defensive teams. For years now we have been a defensive team with out a pass rush. Top 5-10 every year. Offense has been obismal. Look at how the trend is going...Colts offensive team, Patriots offensive team, Giants more of an offensive team, If you can match your opponents score or beat it you win. doesn't matter if the score is 50ish to 40ish. Then you look at the defensive teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Packers, and although they are good they lose to teams that can find a way to put up the points.

[prinzeofmoval]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

We've drafted guys like Ladell Betts, Rock Cartright, Jason Campbell, Chris Cooley, Derrick Dockery, Rocky McIntosh, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, Laron Landry, Chris Horton, Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery and found numerous UFA gems. Now, Chris Horton might not be Sean Taylor, but he's a damn good pickup for a 7th rounder. We haven't had a lot of draft picks to work with, but the guys we've drafted have been pretty solid. To expect a team to draft gem after gem isn't very realistic.

Okay Betts and Cartright I'll give you those. Mediocre but I'll still give you props there. Chris Cooley actually should have went in my stud list along with Landry and Taylor. I actually like horton. He's a ball hawk.BUt its all about perception.Perception is that we trade all our picks away. Reality is that we only became a fair draft team for about 3 years. But we are middle on board at best when it comes to draft day.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by prinzeofmoval

Okay Betts and Cartright I'll give you those. Mediocre but I'll still give you props there. Chris Cooley actually should have went in my stud list along with Landry and Taylor. I actually like horton. He's a ball hawk.BUt its all about perception.Perception is that we trade all our picks away. Reality is that we only became a fair draft team for about 3 years. But we are middle on board at best when it comes to draft day.

Also keep in mind not every draft pick is going to be a winner. Then add the fact that instead of filling the one or two glaring holes we had on the team by "drafting for need" the team management chose to go the "best overall player" route and we ended up with a TE we truely didn't need, a Punter we truely didn't need and if we did, why couldn't they make the punter work? all he has to do is stand back there and grab the ball out of the air and take two steps and punt. Instead it seems we have no one out on the edge to stop the rush. Everytime we punt I cringe waiting for the blocked punt. Their close everytime. Then watch us on punt returns and you will see not one man even gets close to the opposing punter. Why? what are we doing differently or wrong. Why is it that everytime ARE stands back to punt return he has a man in his face and has to down the ball? Other teams are pushing the ball up field. back to my soap box...we picked up a QB we really didn't need. or maybe we did. We all knew what we needed out of the draft...1 or 2 DT's who were young, healthy and could collapse a pocket. A bigger DE. We have a smaller speedier DE in Carter, what we needed was the power rushing DE on the other side. O-line anywere. Just a young healthy warm body. Heyer is good for what he was ...a non drafted o-lineman. He's a nice fill in when needed but he's not a stand out or a difference maker. and last but not least we needed WR and S. We drafted for those positions.