Broncos to trade Cutler

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

What's pissing me off the most is I know for a fact that we're going to overpay for Cutler. History shows that we're not capable of getting the better end of any trade....so I assume it's going to be our #1 pick plus a player. IMO it's not worth it.

What, to you, is Cutler's worth?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think

-A lot of the people here preaching patience are being quite hypocritical considering how so many of us want to cut Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas now because of their lack of production their rookie season

-I don't fault the Redskins for looking for ways they think could make the team better

-I think this is less about Cutler and more about a lack of absolute faith in Campbell. And, as much as I like Campbell, when you look around and see the success some of his peers have had it's hard not to get frustrated.

-I don't know that Cutler is a franchise QB per se (mainly because I haven't figured out how I'd define that), but at this point I think he's better than Campbell and that will probably continue, no matter how good Campbell gets

-The sky isn't falling, and people have to stop assuming we're trading every player on our roster. "Oh my God!!! I can't believe we're trading Cooley. This sucks, Everything sucks!!!!"

-My gut (I've lost considerable weight lately, so it may not be speaking as loudly anymore) tells me that Cutler isn't coming here. We can't and don't want to offer as much as some other teams are reportedly offering

-If there is any way at all to get Cutler and keep our #13 overall pick (Oher!!!), I'd do it

I really like this post, but you have to admit that over the last 10 years, we've proven pretty definitively that the "redskins way" is not the way to build a championship team. I'm not pissed so much with the specifics of this as I am with the continuing tradition of chasing any name that becomes available.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What, to you, is Cutler's worth?

He's worth either a high first rounder and a starting player or two first rounders. That's probably his value cause of his huge upside. But we're not in a position to make that kind of deal. We've already got a QB who has the ability to take his game to the next level and we've already made a huge investment in him. On top of that Colt looks pretty promising. Why can't those two dumb asses see that and build on what we've got? I swear they always have a hard on for other teams players.

[celts32]

IMO Cutler is easily worth a couple #1 picks and then some. Maybe since the Redskins have not had a quality QB in so long we forget how valuable they are. A QB as promising as Cutler at his age is NEVER available in trade so we can throw everything we think we know about player trade value out the window. Great QB play covers up other weaknesses...when the running game is stopped Cutler still gives you a chance...defense has a bad day Cutler still gives you a chance. I am normally a lets build through the draft guy...but in this instance I would pay whatever it takes!

The only commodity the redskins hold that I would be reluctant to include is Laron Landry.

[MTK]

Thankfully we have a QB in JC who isn't going to let this talk ruffle his feathers, at least not in public. Still, this rumor has me ticked off. I don't think this would be a good move for a variety of reasons.

1) I don't want to see us giving away more draft picks. I don't think the Broncos are going to get the two #1 picks they're asking for, but the price will be steep regardless. I'm guessing our #13 this year and another high rounder next year.

2) I think it would be a bad move for the locker room. JC is well liked and respected by his teammates. Cutler, at least character wise, is not on par with JC. I think this move would piss off a lot of guys in the locker room. Would they get over it and still play hard in the end? Sure. But it's these type of disruptive moves that keep the Redskins in perennial transition mode. Say hello to 8-8 again.

3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

The basic value for Cutler in general would probably be at about 1 1st rounder and a 2nd-4th round from the following year. He has a great arm and good mobility, but has a losing record and averages an int in every game started. In their current situation though, I personally believe Cutler's value is drastically lower because the Broncos HAVE to trade him. No team should give up more than a 1st or 2nd for him especially not the Skins since they are the only team with a young qb who's a legitimate starter that's progressed over the last couple seasons.
This trade talk is one reason why I hate the offseason because our team always seems to be one of the main contenders in throwing away draft picks for another teams problem.

[Paintrain]

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

Yes, good teams build thru the draft, but guess what-so do BAD teams! The Lions have had nearly all of their draft picks over the past 6 years and what has it done for them. By contrast, the Pats have had years with around 10 picks and also years with less than 6 picks. Having draft picks alone is like owning a fluctuating stock-if you don't make a perfect decision you end up with worthless crap.

Let's not act like draft picks, especially with this decision making team, are gold that we are about to trade for straw.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Thankfully we have a QB in JC who isn't going to let this talk ruffle his feathers, at least not in public. Still, this rumor has me ticked off. I don't think this would be a good move for a variety of reasons.

3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.

For a long time I felt the same way Matty but here's the thing, to win in the NFL you've got to excel at 3 things and in this order:
-Have an excellent QB
-Rush the QB
-Protect the QB

You said it perfectly, 'if it doesn't work out don't re-sign him and look at other options'. We've been doing that at that position for over 20 years. This is an opportunity to lock that position down for the next 8-12 years. I'm still not sold that it's the right move, but I am convinced that it's not a wrong move. That is, hands down, the most important position on the football field and to be able to go into the next 8-12 offseasons without that being a question has to be pursued.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Takeuon

"Even if JC flops this year, we still have Colt Brennan who has shown flashes whenever he's gotten to play. And Todd Collins has proven a reliable backup. Cutler is too costly - emotionally and in terms of draft picks. Plus, JC is well liked by his teammates, so I hear. O-line is O for OLD and we will need a running back soon. Don't mortgage the franchise when you don't need to."

Seriously man

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by jdlea

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?

[MTK]

I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.

I see what you are saying so to me the solution is either one or the other. Either make the move to Cutler or make the commitment to Campbell with a 3 year extension. If we go into next offseason with a new QB (Cult of Colt-he's still not going to be ready, if ever, to be a starting NFL QB) then we've failed twice in this offseason to lock that position down.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?

How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO) and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season.

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver. I mean, really, he wasn't playing against nearly the pass rushers or the defensive backfields in the AFC West as he will in the NFC East. (Okay, he played against Merriman and the Bolts year before last, but I don't buy into the Oakland D being as good as advertised and KC's isn't nearly on par with Philly/Dal/NYG)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I see what you are saying so to me the solution is either one or the other. Either make the move to Cutler or make the commitment to Campbell with a 3 year extension. If we go into next offseason with a new QB (Cult of Colt-he's still not going to be ready, if ever, to be a starting NFL QB) then we've failed twice in this offseason to lock that position down.

Jeff Garcia, one year deal?

Seriously though, good post