Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I agree with your comments to me. I feel though, that making US pay for something we didn't bring on ourselves is wrong. BP should pay for this in full, all of the cleanup costs, and the aftermath. And if it kills them as a company, then so be it.

The American people have suffered from this enough. We shouldnt have to pay 1 cent for something they did.

Let's say I agreed with your statements - I don't but I will set that aside for this discussion. The US government declares BP has full fiscal responsibility for cleanup and aftermath costs. BP agrees, and further agrees that the US citizens should not pay for it. They set aside xxx billion dollars, out of their profits. Now they continue selling oil, and processing it. How do you figure out that they didn't pass the costs down the line through normal operating costs?

[MTK]

Another beauty of capitalism, the costs always get passed down to the consumer.

[CRedskinsRule]

Exactly right.

[CRedskinsRule]

IG report: Meth, porn use by drilling agency staff

[12thMan]

It just looks like they won't have this thing plugged anytime soon - or at least soon enough. The damage one to the sea life along the floor of the Gulf is unimaginable at this point.

[SolidSnake84]

latest word from the BP twitter is that they have delayed "Top Kill" again indefinatley , and their hope now is that the relief wells fix the problem. They said there is too much reasonable doubt, and that a failed attempt could make the spill worse.

20,000 barrells a day are pumping out and a failed attempt could make it 100,000 gallons or more per day.

The relief wells wont be finished for 2 to 3 months....yay for BP

[12thMan]

When it's all said and done, this incident should be the text book example of the do's and don'ts for drilling in the future.

[SolidSnake84]

doing the math here, in 60 days, when the relief wells are finished, and assuming they work,(Dont assume anything with Bastard Petroleum) We are looking at about 5 to 6 million barrels of oil spilled in the gulf, which is about 24 times the amount of the exxon valdez, which was previously the worst oil disaster in World History

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

When it's all said and done, this incident should be the text book example of the do's and don'ts for drilling in the future.

Just like the bubonic plague was a lesson on higene for the future. We can't afford these types of mistakes. Busineses pride themselves on risk management. That goes out the window when people know that the American tax payer got everybody's back.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

doing the math here, in 60 days, when the relief wells are finished, and assuming they work,(Dont assume anything with Bastard Petroleum) We are looking at about 5 to 6 million barrels of oil spilled in the gulf, which is about 24 times the amount of the exxon valdez, which was previously the worst oil disaster in World History

Your math may be a bit off, this is what I read this morning:

The oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico has dumped over 6 million gallons of oil into the ocean, according to the New York Daily News, but scientists believe that the actual number could be more than twice that, according to the Associated Press.

The Exxon Valdez spill in 1989, dumped 11 million gallons into the ocean. The difference, proximity. The Deepwater Horizon spill is only 50 miles off of the coast of Louisiana.

White House Says The Gulf Oil Spill Is Worst In US History – IndyPosted

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Your math may be a bit off, this is what I read this morning:

The oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico has dumped over 6 million gallons of oil into the ocean, according to the New York Daily News, but scientists believe that the actual number could be more than twice that, according to the Associated Press.

The Exxon Valdez spill in 1989, dumped 11 million gallons into the ocean. The difference, proximity. The Deepwater Horizon spill is only 50 miles off of the coast of Louisiana.

White House Says The Gulf Oil Spill Is Worst In US History – IndyPosted

my math could be off...let's assume that the rate of flow is the 50,000 barrell a day figure that the government is projecting right now. To flow uninterrupted for 60 more days, during which time the relief wells are being drilled, adds up to 3 million barrels of oil dumped into the gulf. 165,000,000 gallons of oil. Thats assuming a constant 50,000 barrel a day rate, and assuming nothing gets worse.

The exxon valdez only released 250,000 barrels total...we will be well past that and climbing to unprecedented levels. All of us on here may never again live to see this kind of oil disaster.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

my math could be off...let's assume that the rate of flow is the 50,000 barrell a day figure that the government is projecting right now. To flow uninterrupted for 60 more days, during which time the relief wells are being drilled, adds up to 3 million barrels of oil dumped into the gulf. 165,000,000 gallons of oil. Thats assuming a constant 50,000 barrel a day rate, and assuming nothing gets worse.

The exxon valdez only released 250,000 barrels total...we will be well past that and climbing to unprecedented levels. All of us on here may never again live to see this kind of oil disaster.

Yesterday I heard that in Canada they must drill two wells. Relief wells are a part of the risk protection there. Seems like as soon as it happened they started drilling the relief well because they knew the relief well should have already been built (common sense).

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Just like the bubonic plague was a lesson on higene for the future. We can't afford these types of mistakes. Busineses pride themselves on risk management. That goes out the window when people know that the American tax payer got everybody's back.

That makes no sense at all. BP is taking a hit here from 4 different sides.
1: the cost to shut this thing down
2: the cost to clean it up
3: the cost to restore people who depend on the water to make a living
4: lost revenue from the sale of the oil.

Please explain why BP would throw risk management out the window again?

[CRedskinsRule]

How much oil is spilling in to the Gulf of Mexico? And, yes, it does matter. | Lisa Suatoni's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC

interesting read:

...
Why the size of the spill matters

BP and the federal government repeatedly argue that measuring the volume of oil entering the Gulf is not a priority, that a more precise measure of flow rate is not important. Their rationale is that it would not influence the response in any way.

We disagree for a number of reasons:

1. Scale. The flow rate estimates differ by a factor of ten. Differences on this scale are not quibbles; they are big, fundamental differences.
2. Response. The discrepancy is sufficiently large enough to influence response strategies. For example, to promote the efficacy of dispersants, they are applied at a specific ratio to the volume of oil. This is not possible if the volume is unknown, by this large of a degree. In addition, the ability to successfully cap the well, engineer a dome, or pump the oil to the surface depends on a good estimate of the oil flow rate (both in terms of volume of oil and the force with which it is exiting the pipe).
3. Law. Under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990, a natural resource damage assessment (NRDA) must be conducted. This entails assessing the input of oil, its fate (i.e., where it goes, what it coats and contaminates), and the damage it caused. The ability to fully conduct this accounting – or ‘mass balance’ - requires knowing the initial volume of oil.
4. Financial Penalty. Following discharge of oil into a water body, the federal Clean Water Act allows for a civil penalty of up to $1,000 per barrel of oil spilled. This penalty can not be calculated to its fullest extent without knowing the total volume of oil.
5. Future emergency plans. Knowing the magnitude of this spill is necessary to inform future emergency response plans. Substantial underestimates of the volume of oil leaking from Deepwater Horizon will leave us unprepared in the future.

There are multiple reasons why BP may not want the true amount of oil to be known. Just take for example, the $1000 per barrel of oil spill civil penalty under the Clean Water Act. Using the “official” number of 5,000 barrels per day, their current tally is $140 million (and counting). Using some of the higher estimates provided by visual analysis of the leaking pipe, BP’s current tally is in the billions (and counting).

The bigger mystery is why the federal government is sitting on the sidelines. Why has the federal government been reluctant - and so slow - to undertake its own assessment of the size of the spill, particularly given the available expertise and alternative methods?

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

That makes no sense at all. BP is taking a hit here from 4 different sides.
1: the cost to shut this thing down
2: the cost to clean it up
3: the cost to restore people who depend on the water to make a living
4: lost revenue from the sale of the oil.

Please explain why BP would throw risk management out the window again?

They had non-working valves, dead batteries, cracking concrete, and all of this was documented by them. Yet, they did not fix it. Sound like risk management gone wild boys. Waht ahppened ot your eco-terrorist theory. See, conservatives say the darndest things then hope everyone forgets about them. Free willy!! Free Willy!!! (imagine that to a Luke beat)