One Last Luck vs RGIII Thread

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

As to the thread title, if this actually is the LAST Luck vs RGIII thread, I will be astounded.

Ain't NO such thing.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Lotus

gross: we gave up 3 #1 picks
net: we gave up 2 #1 picks

can we agree on this?

I can agree on this, but then, there is this from a Redskins.com page poster on the 99% Sure of RGIII Article:


"As a football fan I still question the price paid for RG3.As a Redskin fan I hope it is worth it and he becomes the Next Great NFL QB, but please do not question my love of the Redskins because I disagree and I am not jumping with joy. This year we will miss out on the 6th and 38th best player in the draft, In the next two years we will miss out on two of the top 20 players (if we go 8-8) in the draft. If you do not understand the cost and risk involed (injury being the big one as 1 injury now=100% of missing skill sets on the field vs 50% this year, 33% next and 25% in 2014)over the long term,you may not know football as well as you think you do. AGAIN:my concern is the cost and risk, I would have the same concern if he got Luck and not RG3. It is a roll of the dice by people who gave us McNabb,Grossman and Beck the last two years. Just food for thought.."



And now, I'm taking to calling him RG#1+#1+#1+#2.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The Redskins have gone since 1985 without a true franchise QB. It was completely necessary for the Redskins front office to pay whatever price it took in order to get a franchise quarterback. We could have had one in the 2005 draft, but Joe Gibbs thought so much of Jason Campbell that he overlooked Aaron Rodgers.

Aaron Rodgers was drafted before Jason Campbell.

If the Redskins can get a strong and athletic RT in the draft to go along with T. Williams, K. Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, and Chester, then the offensive line could flourish into being one of the best in the NFL.

Woah, one of the best in the NFL? Heck I'll be happy with not giving up top 5 QB hits and top 5 sacks.
But seriously a good RT is not going to elevate a bad OL into a one of the best in the NFL.
But a good RT can certainly give us a chance to have an average OL and that alone would be a upgrade.

[Paintrain]

There are fans of the 'what if' that will never agree with the price we paid to move up for RGIII because he represents 3 players who won't be Redskins (#2 this year, 1sts in '13 and '14) and regardless of what he becomes, those phantoms will be more valuable.

If Griffin develops into a star and the face this franchise has so desperately needed, I think that in most circles the price will be considered well worth it. On the field, it speaks to how poor we have been at that position, but his bar for measured success is relatively low. If over the next 2 years he has us in the playoffs and even winning a playoff game (or two) he will be considered a savior by some. If he brings excitement and explosiveness to the offense, he will be considered a star. His personality and marketability is already star level.

Ultimately, wins and losses will be the deciding factor. Slight homerism, but I think that over the span of their first contract, RGIII will have a better early career than Luck simply because Indy is completely terrible. They have nothing on their roster and are starting over. There's a decent chance that the Colts will be picking in the top 3 again next year.

We have somewhat of a framework that we are plugging RGIII into. Our defense is borderline playoff quality, our OL is average with potential to be good (and his mobility will make them better), our skill position players have potential to be good as well. If Griffin goes for 2800+ yds, 16 TD-10 INT plus 400 yds, 5 TD on the ground he's going to be the Rookie of the Year and have us in playoff contention.

[NC_Skins]

Shanahan: Excited to get Griffin | Washington Examiner

On how quickly he'll name him the starter: "You want to make sure he's ready to play, so you have to go through the process. You don't want to throw a guy in there until he's comfortable. It doesn't happen right away. When you give up a couple firsts and a second you want that guy in there as quick as possible, but you want to do it at the right time to make sure he's ready and gives you the best chance to help you win."

On changing his offense to fit a QB: “You always have to incorporate your offense to a skill set I’ve had seven different quarterbacks. Every quarterback I’ve dealt with was completely different. When I was first with John Elway, my first four years, it was a Dallas Cowboys type system. Dan Reeves came from there. When I went to San Francisco with Steve Young it was a West Coast offense with three- and five-step drops but we kind of incorporated different personnel groups and a few different formations. Not a lot. Then you come back to Denver with Elway again and we changed the offense from Dallas to a combination of what John wanted to do with shotgun and he did not like the three- and five-step drops, but he liked throwing out of the shotgun and moving out of the shotgun so that offense was a little different for the next four years. Brian Griese was completely different. We took formations and changed them up each week, he was one of the sharpest guys I’ve ever been around. You didn’t have much of the rollout package because he wasn’t the fastest guy. Jake Plummer, he could throw great with rollouts and bootlegs. Jake was great at it. He went from winning 36 percent of his games in Arizona to 72 in Denver. And Jay Cutler was a guy that could do everything. … You have to look at who your quarterback is and what your supporting cast is and give that quarterback the best chance to win.”

More good work by Keim.

[Bubba305-ST21-]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

There are fans of the 'what if' that will never agree with the price we paid to move up for RGIII because he represents 3 players who won't be Redskins (#2 this year, 1sts in '13 and '14) and regardless of what he becomes, those phantoms will be more valuable.

If Griffin develops into a star and the face this franchise has so desperately needed, I think that in most circles the price will be considered well worth it. On the field, it speaks to how poor we have been at that position, but his bar for measured success is relatively low. If over the next 2 years he has us in the playoffs and even winning a playoff game (or two) he will be considered a savior by some. If he brings excitement and explosiveness to the offense, he will be considered a star. His personality and marketability is already star level.

Ultimately, wins and losses will be the deciding factor. Slight homerism, but I think that over the span of their first contract, RGIII will have a better early career than Luck simply because Indy is completely terrible. They have nothing on their roster and are starting over. There's a decent chance that the Colts will be picking in the top 3 again next year.

We have somewhat of a framework that we are plugging RGIII into. Our defense is borderline playoff quality, our OL is average with potential to be good (and his mobility will make them better), our skill position players have potential to be good as well. If Griffin goes for 2800+ yds, 16 TD-10 INT plus 400 yds, 5 TD on the ground he's going to be the Rookie of the Year and have us in playoff contention.

couldnt agree more! we won 5 games with grossman at the helms and lost 6 games by 8 points or less, put robert under center and no we dont win all of those games but i think we wouldve won some. i think we have a chance to make alot of noise this year, but we will see.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Tomato, Tomato.

It is, but it isn't.


It actually took 3 first and a 2nd to get that 1st, which was 2 spots ahead.


This reminds me of when the whole CBA thing was going on. The owners liked to say they were getting 60/40 split of the profits, but what they were doing is leaving off the 1 billion off the top so they can show the public how they were being neglected. The NLFPA side of it was that it was basically a 50/50 split (give or take a few percentages) once you add the 1 billion into the equation.

I think this all boils down to how you view the transaction.

4

It was 4 spots ahead.. and in a few years we will know

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The Redskins have gone since 1985 without a true franchise QB. It was completely necessary for the Redskins front office to pay whatever price it took in order to get a franchise quarterback. We could have had one in the 2005 draft, but Joe Gibbs thought so much of Jason Campbell that he overlooked Aaron Rodgers. If the Redskins can get a strong and athletic RT in the draft to go along with T. Williams, K. Lichtensteiger, Montgomery, and Chester, then the offensive line could flourish into being one of the best in the NFL. Speaking of Griffin III staying healthy, I hope he gains another 15 pounds or so before training camp starts. He's going to get hit a lot by a lot of 245-260 pound linebackers. Griffin III is a slender 223 pounds now so lets hope that he can withstand the hits that an NFL QB takes.

We didn't overlook Rodgers

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

4

It was 4 spots ahead.. and in a few years we will know

Opps. Thanks for the correction.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

We didn't overlook Rodgers

We actually did, picking Carlos Rogers at #9 instead of Aaron Rodgers. One of many, many poor decisions during the Gibbs 2.0 era. We had already stupidly traded a couple of days early based on projections and our desire to get Campbell. By the time Rodgers fell, we had already made our bed.

[SmootSmack]

Who's to say Rodgers would have ended up where he is now had he been drafted by us

[Alvin Walton]

Do you feel a draft in here?

[MTK]

23 teams passed on Rodgers, a lot of teams are kicking themselves over that.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

23 teams passed on Rodgers, a lot of teams are kicking themselves over that.

Exactly. Noone knows how a player will turn out. You have to draft based on skill set, personality, and not a whole hell of alot more. Its implementing that QB and creating the environment for him to thrive in which is the hardest part. Noone knows the finality of drafting a certain player, even 5 years after the draft pick, because different teams, different circumstances and different systems and coaches each affect different players in different ways, a la Ryan Leaf could have thrived if say he was drafted by the Dolphins instead of the Chargers, and if Manning was drafted by the Atlanta Falcons instead of the Colts, he could have been a bust. In short, you could say that its mainly the organization and the coaches that make or break a player, in one sense.

That being said, I feel comfortable handing RG3 over to this group of coaches. If Kyle can do what he did in Houston with Schaub, then he should be able to at least replicate it with a specimen such as RG3 in theory. Hopefully, Hankerson and Garcon will become top notch players at their positions in order to help that progress.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Who's to say Rodgers would have ended up where he is now had he been drafted by us

Word. I think Rodgers has said learning from Favre was valuable. But ultimately he was going to be great no matter what, and I think dropping in the draft served as extra motivation no doubt.