Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB?

TheMalcolmConnection · 08-02-2005, 07:40 AM

I don't know. He made a pretty compelling argumenton SportsCenter about why he didn't know any better...

Sammy Baugh Fan · 08-02-2005, 08:55 AM

Sorry but it is ridiculous to mention a steroid drug user and Art Mont in the same sentence.

They can throw Palmero's numbers right in the trash if he used Steroids.

Art Mong BELONGS in the HOF. Not Palmero

My opinion above
mike

cpayne5 · 08-02-2005, 09:08 AM

Major league baseball doesn't tell players what supplements have chemicals that could trigger a positive test for steroids. Supplements are not regulated by the government and the supplement manufacturers don't always tell you what a product's ingredients are.

Raffy tested positive several weeks ago. It went to arbitration and the arbitrator ruled that he didn't believe Raffy took steroids intentionally, but rather took a supplement not knowing that it would trip the steroid test. The arbitrator also ruled that it be prudent to have Raffy serve the suspension anyway.

I believe Raffy is a good man and I believe him when he says he didn't do it intentionally. The way MLB has set it up, it would be very easy to fail a drug test. I would wager that 99% of MLB players have no idea which supplement contains what. What really needs to happen is for the league and the players union to get together and devise a list of 'bad supplements'. It would protect guys like Raffy and at the same time, go after guys like Giambi.

TheMalcolmConnection · 08-02-2005, 09:20 AM

I'll say this... why do you need supplements?

BDBohnzie · 08-02-2005, 09:35 AM

Referring to Malcolm's question, Palmeiro is in the over the hill gang as far as ball players go. Supplements, vitamins, etc are a part of an athlete's life, especially at his age, to help the body fight fatigue, help heal, keep the joints going.

I take supplements every day. It may be just a multi-vitamin, and some omega-3 fish oils, but we all take some sort of supplement at one time or another.

Palmeiro did something stupid. He took something he shouldn't have, from someone who isn't a certified person to get it from, and now he's paying the consequences.

Did he take steroids? Most likely not. He has everything to lose if he does. Did he take something that could have triggered a positive on the drug test? You betcha.

Purely by the numbers, he is a HOFer. However, this will certainly taint his changes.

Jayson Stark mentioned something interesting in an article on espn.com. Gaylord Perry is a Hall of Famer, and a well-reknown cheater. He used every trick in the book to produce more movement on the ball, yet he got his free pass into the Hall. A cheater is a cheater...

cpayne5 · 08-02-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I'll say this... why do you need supplements?

I would bet that 99.9% of all athletes take supplements.

MTK · 08-02-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I think these athletes take us for idiots. I mean seriously, if he was taking anything legal, he would have known what it is. I absolutley think he, and Bonds who used that argument as well, both knowningly took what they took. Thats my take on it, but I just dont see how a professional athlete dosent "knowing" ingest somthing into their body.

I agree, I mean c'mon, I didn't "knowingly" take roids?!

Whatever.

Gotta love professional sports, the only place where you can use this lame excuse.

Imagine some average Joe getting busted for a drug test at work and trying to say I didn't knowingly snort coke. Yeah that would really fly.

TheMalcolmConnection · 08-02-2005, 09:45 AM

I just don't think it is as black and white as that. Normally I'm the first person to stand up and cry "bullshit" whenever I hear the "unknowingly took them" argument, but Raffy really had a good argument.

MTK · 08-02-2005, 10:16 AM

It's still irresponsible of these players if they are taking substances and they're not sure of what's in them, or if they are potentially banned substances.

Has anyone other than Canseco admitted to using steroids?

The guy is a tool but at least he's been honest, I can at least respect him for that.

I'm just getting tired of hearing about these athletes who are playing the victim card. Oh I didn't know I was taking a banned substance... well if you really don't know what you're taking I can't feel sorry for you when it turns out that it was illegal. If you're putting something into your body and you're not sure what it is exactly, who's fault is that?

I do understand that there is alot of gray area when it comes to supplements and what's in them, etc.

I guess I'm just tired of hearing about steroids and baseball, period.

TheMalcolmConnection · 08-02-2005, 10:25 AM

I definitely agree that it's irresponsible of players to not know what it's things before they take them. I'm tired of it too. Can't someone just be naturally jacked? Just eat right and you'll get "most" of the vitamins you need and take a supplement of the vitamin you need. MUCH easier.

Also, the way that some of them do talk about it, it sounds SO sketchy, like someone pulls up in a rusty van with leis hanging from the rear view and saying, "Want some candy Barry?"

cpayne5 · 08-02-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm just getting tired of hearing about these athletes who are playing the victim card. Oh I didn't know I was taking a banned substance... well if you really don't know what you're taking I can't feel sorry for you when it turns out that it was illegal. If you're putting something into your body and you're not sure what it is exactly, who's fault is that?

The problem is that you can walk into a 'nutrition center' and pick up two bottles of different supplements that guarantee the same results and appear to be composed of the same thing and have it turn out that one of them will trigger a steroid test and one will not.

On a side note, can you imagine the types of numbers Raffy would have put up if he had intentionally used steroids and bulked up to the size of McGwire and Giambi?

SmootSmack · 08-02-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I don't know. He made a pretty compelling argumenton SportsCenter about why he didn't know any better...

What did he say?

cpayne5 · 08-02-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Just eat right and you'll get "most" of the vitamins you need and take a supplement of the vitamin you need. MUCH easier.

Even if you go to your local gym, 75% of the guys in there lifting weights don't even do it au naturale. Shoot, go into a high school athlete's medicine closet and see what you find. It's pervasive throughout the country in athletic circles, yet everyone thinks its safe because they can buy it OTC.

TheMalcolmConnection · 08-02-2005, 12:07 PM

I know, that's why I'm pissed that I work my ass off to be in shape and just eat right and stuff. It might get you jacked up quick, but it hurts your body SO bad.

TheMalcolmConnection · 08-02-2005, 12:45 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=2122193

A REALLY good article. Makes me change my mind and blame baseball for a lot of this...

08-02-2005, 07:40 AM	#16
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? I don't know. He made a pretty compelling argumenton SportsCenter about why he didn't know any better... __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

08-02-2005, 08:55 AM	#17
Sammy Baugh Fan Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Northern Virginia, Woodbridge Age: 64 Posts: 2,507	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? Sorry but it is ridiculous to mention a steroid drug user and Art Mont in the same sentence. They can throw Palmero's numbers right in the trash if he used Steroids. Art Mong BELONGS in the HOF. Not Palmero My opinion above mike __________________ Check out Mike Hedrick - The Next Food Network Star. Please Click and give me a Thumbs Up and Positive Comment. Thanks

08-02-2005, 09:08 AM	#18
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? Major league baseball doesn't tell players what supplements have chemicals that could trigger a positive test for steroids. Supplements are not regulated by the government and the supplement manufacturers don't always tell you what a product's ingredients are. Raffy tested positive several weeks ago. It went to arbitration and the arbitrator ruled that he didn't believe Raffy took steroids intentionally, but rather took a supplement not knowing that it would trip the steroid test. The arbitrator also ruled that it be prudent to have Raffy serve the suspension anyway. I believe Raffy is a good man and I believe him when he says he didn't do it intentionally. The way MLB has set it up, it would be very easy to fail a drug test. I would wager that 99% of MLB players have no idea which supplement contains what. What really needs to happen is for the league and the players union to get together and devise a list of 'bad supplements'. It would protect guys like Raffy and at the same time, go after guys like Giambi. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

08-02-2005, 09:20 AM	#19
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? I'll say this... why do you need supplements? __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

08-02-2005, 09:35 AM	#20
BDBohnzie Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 47 Posts: 4,628	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? Referring to Malcolm's question, Palmeiro is in the over the hill gang as far as ball players go. Supplements, vitamins, etc are a part of an athlete's life, especially at his age, to help the body fight fatigue, help heal, keep the joints going. I take supplements every day. It may be just a multi-vitamin, and some omega-3 fish oils, but we all take some sort of supplement at one time or another. Palmeiro did something stupid. He took something he shouldn't have, from someone who isn't a certified person to get it from, and now he's paying the consequences. Did he take steroids? Most likely not. He has everything to lose if he does. Did he take something that could have triggered a positive on the drug test? You betcha. Purely by the numbers, he is a HOFer. However, this will certainly taint his changes. Jayson Stark mentioned something interesting in an article on espn.com. Gaylord Perry is a Hall of Famer, and a well-reknown cheater. He used every trick in the book to produce more movement on the ball, yet he got his free pass into the Hall. A cheater is a cheater... __________________ Bad Things man, I mean bad things... “WE TOOK HIM IN THE SIXTH ROUND SO WE'RE NOT SMART EITHER.” - Shanny on what the Skins saw in Alfred Morris

08-02-2005, 09:45 AM	#23
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? I just don't think it is as black and white as that. Normally I'm the first person to stand up and cry "bullshit" whenever I hear the "unknowingly took them" argument, but Raffy really had a good argument. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

08-02-2005, 10:16 AM	#24
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,050	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? It's still irresponsible of these players if they are taking substances and they're not sure of what's in them, or if they are potentially banned substances. Has anyone other than Canseco admitted to using steroids? The guy is a tool but at least he's been honest, I can at least respect him for that. I'm just getting tired of hearing about these athletes who are playing the victim card. Oh I didn't know I was taking a banned substance... well if you really don't know what you're taking I can't feel sorry for you when it turns out that it was illegal. If you're putting something into your body and you're not sure what it is exactly, who's fault is that? I do understand that there is alot of gray area when it comes to supplements and what's in them, etc. I guess I'm just tired of hearing about steroids and baseball, period. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

08-02-2005, 10:25 AM	#25
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? I definitely agree that it's irresponsible of players to not know what it's things before they take them. I'm tired of it too. Can't someone just be naturally jacked? Just eat right and you'll get "most" of the vitamins you need and take a supplement of the vitamin you need. MUCH easier. Also, the way that some of them do talk about it, it sounds SO sketchy, like someone pulls up in a rusty van with leis hanging from the rear view and saying, "Want some candy Barry?" __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

08-02-2005, 12:07 PM	#29
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? I know, that's why I'm pissed that I work my ass off to be in shape and just eat right and stuff. It might get you jacked up quick, but it hurts your body SO bad. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

08-02-2005, 12:45 PM	#30
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=2122193 A REALLY good article. Makes me change my mind and blame baseball for a lot of this... __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

Palmeiro, Art Monk of the MLB?

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