Around the NFL Off - Season style.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Super Bowl in New York - stoopid
Expansion to Europe - stoopid
Fines fines and more fines - stoopid
Kowtowing to to a select group of owners - stoopid

Goodel is a twit.

Now that is an argument.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Giantone

post #214

I believe there was some kind of poll among players and it was very much not in RG's favor. The players do not like the guy. To me that carries a lot more weight than what we think.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Amazing how successful the league is all in spite of Goodell. If he was truly ruining the game it sure hasn't shown on the bottom line. As usual, nobody likes the boss.

The league would be successful with or without him. Also Paul T or Pete R was was not this disliked among players.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The league would be successful with or without him. Also Paul T or Pete R was was not this disliked among players.

They also didn't have to deal with tough issues like concussions/player safety along with social media.

A good commish is the backbone of a strong league. Just look at some of the other commissioners in the big 4. Long term sustained success doesn't happen by accident.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The league would be successful with or without him. Also Paul T or Pete R was was not this disliked among players.

At the time?... Or now?

With approximately 5000 lawsuits by former players or their families against the NFL for actions committed under their stewardship, you cant *honestly* make that statement as it applies to today. The lawsuits dont claim that Goodell was lying to them, they are claiming Pete and Paul were.

Players dont like the direction, but the status quo has the players suing once they retire. Thats not a sustainable model for a professional league.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Some of this stuff is not all on RG. I believe Ray Anderson is the one who hands out the fines.

Ok well I don't remember this ridiculousness happening under Tagliabue. And Roger is the head of the NFL, the final say, if you will, so he can go and say to Ray Anderson (assuming Ray is the person to hand out all the fines and what determines a fine) and say "Ray, don't fine ____ theres no need to."

To add to the fines, there now is inconsistency with them.

Brandon Stokley a few years ago grazed a refs arm like "Wheres that call?!?" and got ejected and fined $25,000.

Bill Belichick was fined $50,000 for touching the replacement referee on the shoulder like "Hey I want to talk."

Then we have Cary Williams who comes out of a pile and pushes the referee
and does not even get fined a penny...

I can also compare that Frank Gore is fined $10,000 the week prior to the super bowl for wearing low socks. So fashion is more important than losing your cool on referees, in the NFLs eyes of what is good and what is bad (what deserves a fine and what doesnt)

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Im just curious about something. A question to the people who thinks Roger Goodell deserves less money.

Where do you think that extra money will go?

Very simple answer... It gets split evenly by the owners and put into their pockets. You arent getting cheaper beer at a game if Roger takes a paycut. You arent getting cheaper tickets if Roger takes a paycut. Every last one of you would say the Commisioner of the NFL is underpaid... If it was your job.

As much as I am not a fan of the guy, the fact is, every owner looks at the bottom line. Im sure Dan Snyder doesnt like Goodell on Monday through Thursday, but when his paycheck gets deposited into his bank on Friday, im sure Dan agrees with the job that Goodell is doing.

CEO's, COO's, ect are paid based on how profitable a company/corporation is. Its based on whether the consumer will spend money on your product, not whether the consumers like the CEO's or COO's.

So if the goal is to make sure that the owners are the only people who get paid in the NFL, then so be it. If thats not the goal, then why complain when they pay someone else. I would rather the NFL give bonuses and extra money to the employees of the NFL over the 32 owners keeping it all.

I'll tell you where that money could be going. To the retired players. Especially the ones with major injuries and problems. Yes, I know there is already money going to retired players, but there can be more going to them and research towards some if these brain injuries and other major head trauma tests to find better ways and cures if you will towards playing football.

Also that money could be going to little leagues and high schools as part of the play 60 program (or whatever its called) to help the underprivileged kids get football equipment and help their schools get money for other football needs. There are tons and I mean tons, of football programs across the country that pop up in poor areas where the kids may have talent, but the parents and/or the program may not have the money for pads and other equipment.

I just gave you 2 major places where the NFL could put $20 million, instead of in Rogers pocket. He doesn't play and he was the highest paid person in the league last year. Where is his jersey?

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I'll tell you where that money could be going. To the retired players. Especially the ones with major injuries and problems. Yes, I know there is already money going to retired players, but there can be more going to them and research towards some if these brain injuries and other major head trauma tests to find better ways and cures if you will towards playing football.

Also that money could be going to little leagues and high schools as part of the play 60 program (or whatever its called) to help the underprivileged kids get football equipment and help their schools get money for other football needs. There are tons and I mean tons, of football programs across the country that pop up in poor areas where the kids may have talent, but the parents and/or the program may not have the money for pads and other equipment.

I just gave you 2 major places where the NFL could put $20 million, instead of in Rogers pocket. He doesn't play and he was the highest paid person in the league last year. Where is his jersey?

I agree. And the NFL was strong and popular long before RG came along. I think he benefited from the NFL much more than the other way around.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Some people need to learn how the NFL runs,it's by committee,Goodell is like a COO of a very,very sucsessfull company and gets paid that way.I don't mean to be rude but "wrecking the game becuase he is worried about safety",what the hell?.Former players are killing themselves and others are suing the NFL becuase they do too little about safty,the guy can't win.As for some of the fines that you mention ,no ,I don't agree with alot of them but others are well deserved,if he doesn't run it (the NFL) with an iron fist it will turn into the NBA,the hell with that.
You keep saying, he this and he that, ...THE COMPETITION COMMITTEE VOTES on any and all changes.Goodell didn't do it,Bidwell,Wilson,Jones,Lurie,Mara,Hunt,Snyder etc, all changed it!
All the other sports combined don't do what the NFL does,now while I agree with many of you it's becuase I just believe no one is is worth that money I understand business.I want them to let the players play the game my opinion,give all players lifetime healthcare.Nothing, and yes I mean nothing in the NFL is done by one man.

First, the whole committee. As the head of the committee, which Roger is, you are there to take the whole blame or the whole appraise or half and half, whatever. So us saying its Rogers fault is still the correct thing to do.

Example, the US government works by us citizens voting for whom we think is the right candidate with the right beliefs, by our choice. Assuming our president is elected, what ever our president does, its going to be ridiculed by the other party.

Think of the people/citizens as the NFL owners. Or think of the NFL owners as the senators who bring up different bills to vote on. An issue comes up the owners vote. Is the decision unanimous? Rarely. Theres always a few owners who don't vote with the crowd. Goodell gets the final vote and if it goes in his favor he announces it. If it doesn't that remains to be seen if he asks the committee to reconsider their vote or brings it to say, the NFLPA and asks them to vote and consider the situation and may say to the public "we couldn't come to an agreement."

The point is (if its too confusing above) like the president of the US your always going to have people that doubt his decisions or are pissed at him for what another majority of people had wanted when the finger of blame should be going at your opposing party as opposed to the president himself, but thats what the president is there for, to put in his input and take full credit or full blame, to be the voice of the people. But when we speak, we speak about the president as opposed to the democrats/republicans for example. Roger speaks for the owners, but know that he only needs 17 of the 32 owners to agree with him, and know that these ideas of ridiculousness come from not just the owners, but from him.

Now next point, you were asking about the how I said he's ruining the game by making it safer. Yes I still stand by it for a few reasons.
1) If you ask a lot of these football players, like the ones from the poor areas of the country where "football is the only way out of the area" they would tell you they would still do it again, going through and playing football, rather than still being in a poor/bad area. (I wish I remembered what article it was I read this in a year or two ago, or if this was on TV) Bottom line, football is a way out, and people would still take that way out, knowing the life consequences.

2) Your being paid millions to play a sport which you know a lot about, thus a "professional" football player. You should know the consequences of playing the sport and that with your millions of dollars, you are also going to be going through the pain. If the NFL ever comes to the point down the road of eliminating contact/tackling then these guys should be paid in the tens of thousands ($50,000). Their salary is reflecting, the consequences they know they're going to take doing their job.

3) For all the players that have come out and said they're seriously injured, thats a very small number to the other players in the NFL who have come out and said that they're fine or they can live with what they have suffered. Sure theres Duerson, Gleason, Seau, Jammal Lewis, OJ Berget (the ravens wheelchair guy) that have suffered major injuries or died from them, but for the few bad cases you hear every so often, there's a much much larger crowd of guys who are fine/healthy/can deal with their injuries. You hear some guys like Terry Bradshaw saying he suffers from short term memory loss. Sure football could have played a factor in that, but a lot of these guys who are complaining about being 'injured' by football are suffering from 'injuries' which occurs to a lot of us when we get older. When you hear a 60-70 year old former player saying "I have knee problems from playing football" well a lot of us have knee problems at that age. The NFL is taking some smart steps with teaching kids how to hit and finding new ways to prevent concussions. But they also go way overboard with helmet to helmet hits or ''hits to the head.'' If they tweaked the rule a little bit I wouldn't be mad, but they're keeping it so plain that they're enforcing stupid penalties.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

I'll tell you where that money could be going. To the retired players. Especially the ones with major injuries and problems. Yes, I know there is already money going to retired players, but there can be more going to them and research towards some if these brain injuries and other major head trauma tests to find better ways and cures if you will towards playing football.

Also that money could be going to little leagues and high schools as part of the play 60 program (or whatever its called) to help the underprivileged kids get football equipment and help their schools get money for other football needs. There are tons and I mean tons, of football programs across the country that pop up in poor areas where the kids may have talent, but the parents and/or the program may not have the money for pads and other equipment.

I just gave you 2 major places where the NFL could put $20 million, instead of in Rogers pocket. He doesn't play and he was the highest paid person in the league last year. Where is his jersey?

So your point is that it is 100% the fault of the Goodells salary as to why these things arent already being done? Your point is that there is absolutely no possible way there is any extra money in the NFL now to take care of these things without cutting Goodells salary?

I completely disagree with both of those contentions.

The salary of NFL employees has nothing to do with your semantics as to where some money could go. The owners could put 20 million to those causes, give Goodell a 20 mil per year raise on top of the already 30 mil he is getting now, and the owners are STILL raking in the money.

So while NFL owners could strip Goodell of 20 mil a year and donate it to either of those two causes, donate it to the homeless, donate it to cure cancer, or donate it to strippers anonymous, they wont.... They would put that 20 mil in their own pockets if they took it from Goodell

[Ruhskins]

While I do not expect people to “like” Roger Goodell, I have to disagree with some of the arguments being made.

The initial question is whether RG is overpaid. I would say probably but maybe not. The NFL is an entertainment business; they are not saving lives or providing a critical need to society. If you view it that way, then just about everyone in the league is overpaid. Then again, his salary is probably similar, if not lower, compared to some of the CEOs/COOs in Wall Street: The Year's Highest Paid CEOs - WSJ.com

Is RG ruining football? That is a resounding NO. The success of the league is most likely measured in two manners: profits and popularity. As I mentioned before, the league is the most profitable compared to the other sports league and it is the most popular in attendance and TV ratings:
sports-recreation-leisure-market-research - Industry Statistics

When Tagliabue left the league in 2006, the NFL had a league revenue of $6 billion dollars, in 2012 that number is estimated at around $9.5 billion. If you think that a person who has increased revenue by about $500 million dollars per year (if my math is correct) is ruining your business, you are not a smart person.
American sports: In a league of its own | The Economist

Has RG been perfect as a commissioner in his tenure? No, and no one is making that argument. Under RG’s watch the following things have happened: Spygate, Bountygate, Capgate, Replacement Refs, the Decline of the Pro Bowl, the Lockout, and the Arbitrariness of Fines/Discipline. RG has been involved in some way, shape, or form in these issues; and has made his share of bad decisions in dealing with them.

Is RG solely to blame for these issues? No. OWNERS, Players, the NFLPA, and Greed has played a big part in these issues.

Who runs the NFL? THE OWNERS. Anything that happens or doesn’t happen in the NFL, is because a majority of the OWNERS agreed (or disagreed) upon it. In a lot of the cases, Goodell is the messenger or enforcer to these decisions. And because of naïve/uninformed fans, he solely takes the heat for it. I think The Lockout was the first time that people actually blamed someone else other than Goodell.

Finally, is he popular among the players? Definitely no, especially if you ask crybabies like James Harrison or Jonathan Vilma (who can b*tch about it on Twitter and Faceboo), who don’t own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for screwing things up (because they are looking out for their own profits). Thanks to Vilma, now every player is going to lawyer up and are going to get away with crap. In the end though, I am sure the OWNERS don’t care whether RG is popular with the players, as long as the profit and ratings keep coming in.

In the end, if you say that RG is overpaid you might be right, but it probably has more to do with how you “feel” about him. If you are saying that RG is ruining football, you are making an uninformed statement, once again based on “feelings” and not facts. I personally dislike a number of things Goodell has made in the past (sweeping Spygate under the rug, keep trying to push the Pro Bowl, and saying everything was okay during the Ref Lockout), but as I’ve argued it is likely that he wasn’t solely responsible for those actions. He is not a dictator.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

So your point is that it is 100% the fault of the Goodells salary as to why these things arent already being done? Your point is that there is absolutely no possible way there is any extra money in the NFL now to take care of these things without cutting Goodells salary?

I completely disagree with both of those contentions.

The salary of NFL employees has nothing to do with your semantics as to where some money could go. The owners could put 20 million to those causes, give Goodell a 20 mil per year raise on top of the already 30 mil he is getting now, and the owners are STILL raking in the money.

So while NFL owners could strip Goodell of 20 mil a year and donate it to either of those two causes, donate it to the homeless, donate it to cure cancer, or donate it to strippers anonymous, they wont.... They would put that 20 mil in their own pockets if they took it from Goodell

No, No, NO. Nowhere do I say that. I don't understand even where you get that implication. If you read through my post, you would have seen that I said that even though there are already retirement funds and the whole play 60 thing to help kids now learn how to play and hit properly, I'm saying more money can go into those programs, as an example. There are probably more places that salary of his could go.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

No, No, NO. Nowhere do I say that. I don't understand even where you get that implication. .

Post #229 you said ....

"First, the whole committee. As the head of the committee, which Roger is, you are there to take the whole blame or the whole appraise or half and half, whatever. So us saying its Rogers fault is still the correct thing to do. "
Roger is not the head of the committee...

http://www.nflevolution.com/wordpres...ts-2-14-12.pdf

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

While I do not expect people to “like” Roger Goodell, I have to disagree with some of the arguments being made.

The initial question is whether RG is overpaid. I would say probably but maybe not. The NFL is an entertainment business; they are not saving lives or providing a critical need to society. If you view it that way, then just about everyone in the league is overpaid. Then again, his salary is probably similar, if not lower, compared to some of the CEOs/COOs in Wall Street: The Year's Highest Paid CEOs - WSJ.com

Is RG ruining football? That is a resounding NO. The success of the league is most likely measured in two manners: profits and popularity. As I mentioned before, the league is the most profitable compared to the other sports league and it is the most popular in attendance and TV ratings:
sports-recreation-leisure-market-research - Industry Statistics

When Tagliabue left the league in 2006, the NFL had a league revenue of $6 billion dollars, in 2012 that number is estimated at around $9.5 billion. If you think that a person who has increased revenue by about $500 million dollars per year (if my math is correct) is ruining your business, you are not a smart person.
American sports: In a league of its own | The Economist

Has RG been perfect as a commissioner in his tenure? No, and no one is making that argument. Under RG’s watch the following things have happened: Spygate, Bountygate, Capgate, Replacement Refs, the Decline of the Pro Bowl, the Lockout, and the Arbitrariness of Fines/Discipline. RG has been involved in some way, shape, or form in these issues; and has made his share of bad decisions in dealing with them.

Is RG solely to blame for these issues? No. OWNERS, Players, the NFLPA, and Greed has played a big part in these issues.

Who runs the NFL? THE OWNERS. Anything that happens or doesn’t happen in the NFL, is because a majority of the OWNERS agreed (or disagreed) upon it. In a lot of the cases, Goodell is the messenger or enforcer to these decisions. And because of naïve/uninformed fans, he solely takes the heat for it. I think The Lockout was the first time that people actually blamed someone else other than Goodell.

Finally, is he popular among the players? Definitely no, especially if you ask crybabies like James Harrison or Jonathan Vilma (who can b*tch about it on Twitter and Faceboo), who don’t own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for screwing things up (because they are looking out for their own profits). Thanks to Vilma, now every player is going to lawyer up and are going to get away with crap. In the end though, I am sure the OWNERS don’t care whether RG is popular with the players, as long as the profit and ratings keep coming in.

In the end, if you say that RG is overpaid you might be right, but it probably has more to do with how you “feel” about him. If you are saying that RG is ruining football, you are making an uninformed statement, once again based on “feelings” and not facts. I personally dislike a number of things Goodell has made in the past (sweeping Spygate under the rug, keep trying to push the Pro Bowl, and saying everything was okay during the Ref Lockout), but as I’ve argued it is likely that he wasn’t solely responsible for those actions. He is not a dictator.

I agree with about 75% of this. The only things/questions I want to point out is while RG has ''helped'' the league in terms of making money, he is also receiving numerous complaints from his fans and his players. I don't recall this being so large when Tagliabue was Commissioner.

Why does NFLN, ESPN, SI, CBSSports, FoxSports, Profootballtalk, Bleacher, and so on always point the blame at Goodell as opposed to "the owners"? Thats where the few people here on this site who are cool with RG should start blaming these numerous sport news outlets. ESPN hiring former players saying "Roger Goodell needs to..." "Roger Goodell is making the NFL into a joke" and so on. Thats whats giving the majority of us the idea that he is to blame.

But also ask yourselves this, is it really the owners to blame or are our sport outlets all wrong? I'll give you all a hint, theres a reason why those people are paid to voice their opinions/beliefs, along with constantly referring to Goodell over the committee or the owners, and no it isn't to save a few less words when speaking or typing.

Also if Goodell really isn't at fault, and its "all the owners faults" (not your post but Giantones), then A) Why do we even have Goodell? B) Why don't we just have all the owners vote on an owner to be president of the NFL so that we can say "its all the owners faults and not that puppet for the owners Goodell"? C) If Goodell really is the voice of the owners, then that job doesn't deserve $30,000,000/year.

I think RG also has some control on this site because it went down again, coincidentally when we were talking about him; Oh wait its the owners fault.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Post #229 you said ....

"First, the whole committee. As the head of the committee, which Roger is, you are there to take the whole blame or the whole appraise or half and half, whatever. So us saying its Rogers fault is still the correct thing to do. "
Roger is not the head of the committee...

http://www.nflevolution.com/wordpres...ts-2-14-12.pdf

by appraise I don't mean money, I mean praise; like; thanks;applause. Should have used a better word.