ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

You want your "list" to be taken seriously and I understand opinions and such ,yet you say that 2 of the only 3 QB's playing in the NFL right now with more than one Super Bowl win are only good not "elite" .I realize you're a hater but really , the list is a joke. Rivers ahead of Eli is a joke in it's self but to have him with Brees and Big Ben it boarders on , well , drug testing.

This from the guy who thinks

Originally Posted by Giantone

Top 5 , my 5 Brady ,Rogers ,Brees ,Roethlisberger , Eli , Peyton is 6 to me playoffs and super bowls are what it is about.

I guess by your criteria of playoffs and SBs, Dilfer = Peyton too, right? If not, explain and contradict yourself.

Rivers stats: LINK
116 starts, 2,268 of 3,564 (63.6) for 27,891 yards (7.8), 189 touchdowns and 93 interceptions. Career QBR 94.5.

E. Manning stats: LINK
135 starts, 2,612 of 4,457 (58.6) for 31,527 yards (7.1), 211 touchdowns and 144 interceptions. Career QBR 82.7.

Among other stats favoring Rivers, wow Eli has well over 50% MORE INTS than Philip.


The other career stats from the link above: Rivers has better completion %, better avg. gain, better yds/game, better TD %, better INT %, and better QBR.

And if you watch them play, there is really no comparison. Rivers makes quicker reads and has a better arm. He has to, Rivers has never had as good an OL as Eli has. The Gnats won two SB *despite* trading Rivers for Manning. Another reason they were lucky, not good. 'Course, I'm glad NY didn't get Rivers, they probably would have won at least one more SB with Philip.


TLDR: Philip >>> Eli. Indisputably. E.Manning isn't even in the same class as Rivers mano-a-mano. The only thing you can say in favor of Eli in this comparison is better "lucky" than good, he didn't earn more rings than Rivers himself.

Thanks for inspiring me to lay all this out, giantone! HTTR!

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

This from the guy who thinks
I guess by your criteria of playoffs and SBs, Dilfer = Peyton too, right? If not, explain and contradict yourself.

Rivers stats: LINK
116 starts, 2,268 of 3,564 (63.6) for 27,891 yards (7.8), 189 touchdowns and 93 interceptions. Career QBR 94.5.

E. Manning stats: LINK
135 starts, 2,612 of 4,457 (58.6) for 31,527 yards (7.1), 211 touchdowns and 144 interceptions. Career QBR 82.7.

Among other stats favoring Rivers, wow Eli has well over 50% MORE INTS than Philip.


The other career stats from the link above: Rivers has better completion %, better avg. gain, better yds/game, better TD %, better INT %, and better QBR.

And if you watch them play, there is really no comparison. Rivers makes quicker reads and has a better arm. He has to, Rivers has never had as good an OL as Eli has. The Gnats won two SB *despite* trading Rivers for Manning. Another reason they were lucky, not good. 'Course, I'm glad NY didn't get Rivers, they probably would have won at least one more SB with Philip.


TLDR: Philip >>> Eli. Indisputably. E.Manning isn't even in the same class as Rivers mano-a-mano. The only thing you can say in favor of Eli in this comparison is better "lucky" than good, he didn't earn more rings than Rivers himself.

Thanks for inspiring me to lay all this out, giantone! HTTR!

I hate She lie!!

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

I hate She lie!!

Lol, funny thing is, to me Eli is one of the least objectionable players on that dirty, flopping, OL-holding, crooked owner team. I don't hate him, it's just laughable that Gnat fans compare Eli favorably to Rivers, let alone Brees, Peyton, Brady....

I mean, way back when we won with Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien, I don't recall Skins fans claiming they were as good as Montana, Young, Elway, etc...

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Lol, funny thing is, to me Eli is one of the least objectionable players on that dirty, flopping, OL-holding, crooked owner team. I don't hate him, it's just laughable that Gnat fans compare Eli favorably to Rivers, let alone Brees, Peyton, Brady....

I mean, way back when we won with Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien, I don't recall Skins fans claiming they were as good as Montana, Young, Elway, etc...

OHHH HELL yeah they did!

You get what you pay for and the Giants and Eli as much as you hate to admit it or not have 2 ,I realize you want the the stat chart to be your saving grace in this discussion but in the end a QB gets paid to win and if you don't you don't stay, Eli throw ints,so what ?My answer to all the anti Eli people is he wins super bowls ,this from PFT
"In Eli Manning, the Giants have a skilled, experienced, playoff-tested, durable quarterback. Think of all the teams that don’t have such stability at this key position. The Giants do, and it’s a primary reason they can’t be discounted."
Look Eli can go on streaks when he is bad ...he's bad ,but he wins super bowls and anyone that says that doesn't mean anything in the NFL is an idiot, yes it's that simple.
Yes my 5 are Rogers, Brady,Brees,Roethlisberger,Eli and Peyton .Want me to take a shot at Bob...I won't ,I like him and he has the tools ,like everything about him ,your team just has to protect him and when he wins then maybe he'll be in the discussion .To compare Eli to Rivers or Romo is ...well ignorant.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

OHHH HELL yeah they did!

So you're as delusional about Skins fans as you are about Eli.

(bold mine)

Originally Posted by Giantone

You get what you pay for and the Giants and Eli as much as you hate to admit it or not have 2 ,

Or in the Giants' case, better lucky than good in more ways than one. Thank goodness they didn't get Rivers, they'd have won even more.

Originally Posted by Giantone

I realize you want the the stat chart to be your saving grace in this discussion but in the end a QB gets paid to win and if you don't you don't stay, Eli throw ints,so what ?My answer to all the anti Eli people is he wins super bowls ,this from PFT
"In Eli Manning, the Giants have a skilled, experienced, playoff-tested, durable quarterback. Think of all the teams that don’t have such stability at this key position. The Giants do, and it’s a primary reason they can’t be discounted."

And again, thank goodness the Gnats got Eli instead of Rivers, Brees, Rothlisberger, etc. Giants fans are delusional enough as is.

"The stat chart to be the only saving grace"? Lol. Among the other parts of the game Eli is inferior, INTs are INTs. Though I guess by your standards "paid to win": since we swept the Giants with Rex Grossman as QB, that means Sexy Rexy >>> Eli. And when the stats are so lopsided in favor of Rivers, when just looking at them play it's also obvious Rivers is better. The only thing in Eli's favor is what superbowls THE GIANTS won. And last I looked there were 21+ other starters on a team that helped decide that.

I know you'll probably ignore this like everything else, but look at it this way: The Ravens won the SB this season. Would you take Joe Flacco on your team over Eli or any other QB? No? Why not? Go ahead and answer and contradict yourself.

Originally Posted by Giantone

Look Eli can go on streaks when he is bad ...he's bad ,but he wins super bowls and anyone that says that doesn't mean anything in the NFL is an idiot, yes it's that simple.

Strawman, nobody said winning doesn't mean anything. OTOH, where does Dan Marino fit on your all-time list, and why? Stats? By his quick release and arm?

Originally Posted by Giantone

Yes my 5 are Rogers, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Eli and Peyton .Want me to take a shot at Bob...I won't ,I like him and he has the tools ,like everything about him ,your team just has to protect him and when he wins then maybe he'll be in the discussion .

Ummm, you listed 6 QBs. "Take a shot at Bob"? See, that's your problem, you base your opinion on "taking shots" at other teams QBs and assume that must be my motivation. LMAO if you actually want to compare Griffin's performance with Eli's rookie year. I expect you to cling to injury on that, because that's all you have there. Just like basically all you have to cling to Eli being discussed with other better QBs is how well the Giants did in the playoffs.

(Bold mine)

Originally Posted by Giantone

To compare Eli FAVORABLY to Rivers or MUCH BETTER THAN Romo is ...well ignorant.

Fixed it for you. YW.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

So you're as delusional about Skins fans as you are about Eli.

(bold mine)Or in the Giants' case, better lucky than good in more ways than one. Thank goodness they didn't get Rivers, they'd have won even more.

And again, thank goodness the Gnats got Eli instead of Rivers, Brees, Rothlisberger, etc. Giants fans are delusional enough as is.

"The stat chart to be the only saving grace"? Lol. Among the other parts of the game Eli is inferior, INTs are INTs. Though I guess by your standards "paid to win": since we swept the Giants with Rex Grossman as QB, that means Sexy Rexy >>> Eli. And when the stats are so lopsided in favor of Rivers, when just looking at them play it's also obvious Rivers is better. The only thing in Eli's favor is what superbowls THE GIANTS won. And last I looked there were 21+ other starters on a team that helped decide that.

I know you'll probably ignore this like everything else, but look at it this way: The Ravens won the SB this season. Would you take Joe Flacco on your team over Eli or any other QB? No? Why not? Go ahead and answer and contradict yourself.

Strawman, nobody said winning doesn't mean anything. OTOH, where does Dan Marino fit on your all-time list, and why? Stats? By his quick release and arm?

Ummm, you listed 6 QBs. "Take a shot at Bob"? See, that's your problem, you base your opinion on "taking shots" at other teams QBs and assume that must be my motivation. LMAO if you actually want to compare Griffin's performance with Eli's rookie year. I expect you to cling to injury on that, because that's all you have there. Just like basically all you have to cling to Eli being discussed with other better QBs is how well the Giants did in the playoffs.

(Bold mine)Fixed it for you. YW.

I don't take shots at other teams QB's you did. I said I wouldn't. I didn't and haven't compared Eli and Bob ,they're different I fully admit that and have said nothing different, Eli is elite like it or not ,I like Bob he is a good young QB and exciting to watch but if he is not on the field he'll never be elite not a shot (as you would say) just a fact and one more thing I have NEVER in any post EVER wished or hope a player gets hurt Thing is you keep screaming Marino , so what he never won a super bowl so yeah I don't consider him as elite. As was pointed out before to say Eli is inferior is ignorant in any real discussion of current or past QB's.

P.S
You said I'm delusional about Skins Fans , not in a min ! I wouldn't be here if I was the fans here love their team and I respect that but my comments are to you not all skins fans . Skins Fans are great fans as are Giant fans.

[HailGreen28]

Geez. Please relearn sentence structure, giantone.

Originally Posted by Giantone

I don't take shots at other teams QB's you did. I said I wouldn't. I didn't and haven't compared Eli and Bob ,

You brought up "Bob" for no good reason. Although I consider it a compliment considering how Griffin embarrassed the Giants DEs after whoever came up with the nickname.

Originally Posted by Giantone

they're different I fully admit that and have said nothing different, Eli is elite like it or not ,I like Bob he is a good young QB and exciting to watch but if he is not on the field he'll never be elite not a shot (as you would say) just a fact

(bold mine) LOL. Eli is not elite. Period. A team fan can be forgiven thinking so, but to keep arguing the point after being proven wrong... nothing more to say unless you want to keep burying yourself deeper.

Originally Posted by Giantone

and one more thing I have NEVER in any post EVER wished or hope a player gets hurt

Again you fail reading comprehension, giantone. I said you would cling to the injury thing for debate purposes, as in the ONLY reason you could consider RGIII not to be miles ahead of Eli starting out. And look, you just made the comparison between Eli vs. Griffin if he can't avoid injury, just like I said.

Originally Posted by Giantone

Thing is you keep screaming Marino , so what he never won a super bowl so yeah I don't consider him as elite. As was pointed out before to say Eli is inferior is ignorant in any real discussion of current or past QB's.

(bold mine) Wow. You say Marino isn't elite. And then say calling Eli inferior (to Marino, Brees, Rivers, Peyton, etc.) is ignorant. Wow.

Serious question: So you consider Trent Dilfer elite? If not, explain.

Originally Posted by Giantone

P.S You said I delusional about Skins Fans , not in a min ! I wouldn't be here if I was the fans here love their team and I respect that but my comments are to you not all skins fans .

You are definitely delusional in thinking that Skins fans in general would ever consider Doug Williams or Mark Rypien as elite. Period. Delusional. That's more delusional than thinking Eli is elite.

Originally Posted by Giantone

Skins Fans are great fans as are Giant fans.

Finally something generally true we can agree on. Each fan base has eccentricities for various reasons. We hate Dallas more than other teams, well until weasel John Mara violated the last year of the old CBA to screw two division opponents, and a lot of giant fans like to pretend that Eli is elite. Glad we can still enjoy fandom and watching the NFL.

HTTR

[SCRedskinsFan]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I don't take shots at other teams QB's you did. I said I wouldn't. I didn't and haven't compared Eli and Bob ,they're different I fully admit that and have said nothing different, Eli is elite like it or not ,I like Bob he is a good young QB and exciting to watch but if he is not on the field he'll never be elite not a shot (as you would say) just a fact and one more thing I have NEVER in any post EVER wished or hope a player gets hurt Thing is you keep screaming Marino , so what he never won a super bowl so yeah I don't consider him as elite. As was pointed out before to say Eli is inferior is ignorant in any real discussion of current or past QB's.

P.S
You said I delusional about Skins Fans , not in a min ! I wouldn't be here if I was the fans here love their team and I respect that but my comments are to you not all skins fans . Skins Fans are great fans as are Giant fans.

Why do I feel that every time you call our QB "Bob" that you're taking a shot at us and him? I think it's your way of making a derogatory remark and don't be surprised if we react badly to that.

Your continued rants about Eli's eliteness would play a lot better on a Giants message board rather than here, and that's where I suggest you take them. I mean you're just wrong when you assert he's better than Brees for example, so take your arguments/discussion where they would be welcomed, not here.

And I was around when Rypien and Williams were successful here. There's nobody that thought they were in the same class as Montana, for example. So you're just dead wrong when you whistle that tune...

The most constructive thing you could do for at least a little while is go away and play in your own playground, with your Giants friends.

Farewell. HTTR.