One Night Only: Offensive Packers-Redskins Game Review, Mythbusters Edition

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So what your saying is teams are not affraid of RGII's arm unless he is able to run which I agree. He is not a pocket passer and needs his legs to be affective.

Nobody could function as an effective pocket passer behind this line. Griffin threw plenty of accurate intermediate to deep passes from the pocket last year. This notion that he cannot become excellent in the pocket is bunk. That said, with his lack of protection, he better start using his legs to extend plays, or this will be a very long season.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Nobody could function as an effective pocket passer behind this line. Griffin threw plenty of accurate intermediate to deep passes from the pocket last year. This notion that he cannot become excellent in the pocket is bunk. That said, with his lack of protection, he better start using his legs to extend plays, or this will be a very long season.

Well if you look at RGII"S sacks 4 and hits 12 there are plent of other QB's hit and sacked about the same with much better numbers. I don't buy into the O line is to blame and the number don't support it either.

[skinsguy]

Just a few issues here. If RGIII's teams suck that badly, why is it that they were quite successful last year? Doesn't make sense to me. Could they be better? Absolutely! But I don't think they suck. I DO think Fred Davis is very underwhelming right now, but I've seen great improvement with Hankerson, Morgan is a beast with fighting for more yards, and Garcon looks to be quite explosive.

As far as RGIII goes, I think he's playing very attentively to his knee injury. I think it's kind of a form of "shell shock". Griffin is healthy, physically. He's healthy enough and probably fast enough to be as effective as he was last year, but he's playing scared. Many of the passes that have been off from Robert has been due to him throwing off his back foot. Yes, I know that all the great QBs, including Griffin, have been able to complete great passes despite bad mechanics, but Griffin has been doing this quite a bit in the last two games. I think it's coming down to the fact that Griffin is still trying to get back into game speed mode, and often when a QB is still trying to adjust, you're going to see him throwing off his back foot because he's trying to get the ball out quicker. And let's not down play this, the guy has come back from a very, very, serious knee injury. Only eight months ago at that! So, in a way, I can't blame Griffin for being a little cautious with his knee.

I also can't blame the coaches for wanting to protect Robert as much as they can in the early going. I can't say for sure if Robert is actually reading the defense in the read option (when they do run it) or if the tosses to Morris are strictly designed no matter what. But I have noticed times when Griffin would have taken off and ran - especially when there was a running lane, and he didn't. Now of course, that's part of what we complained about last season - was that he needs to learn to not run so much, so I guess we can't complain out of both sides of our mouths. Either let him run or let him be quarterback first and running back as very last option.

Finally, The blame is spread across everything. Those who are advocating sitting Griffin either have not been watching the games, or just those knee-jerk reaction type of people who have tunnel vision to the quarterback and disregard everything else. Griffin is not going to be in 2012 in the early going, but he has to be out there to get back to his 2012 form. He's not going to fully recover, physically & mentally, until he's out there enough to trust his surgery, trust himself, and to trust his protection. It's just going to take time. Two full games after eight months removed from a serious knee injury, and we're talking about sitting Griffin? He's healed, but he's gotta get out there and work through this, that is the only way he gets out of this.

Let's remember, our secondary is going to go through some major growing pains. They are young, and they are showing us they are rookies. They will improve, but it's going to take time. They had to face this uptempo offense that nobody knew anything about, then they had to face Aaron Rodgers. Next week, they have to face Mathew Stafford and Megatron? These cats are getting baptized by fire, man. But, in the long run, this will help them. I think we will have a very strong secondary, but it's going to take time.

I hate the this season has started out the way it has, but I don't think there is need for panic just yet. I'll start to sweat a little more if the 'skins drop one to the Lions, but this is a very talented Redskins team. I think Mike Shanahan has done a great job turning this organization around. We 'skins fans are a very fickled bunch and often look at the glass as being half empty, because we're used to failure. Some expect it, and even some of us hope for it just so we can complain. But, I'm not going to complain just yet. I understand how much this injury would effect not just Griffin, but the entire team. He is the leader out there, and if he's not so sure of himself, then the rest of the team is going to pick up on that. A win against the Lions and the Raiders puts the 'skins into a good situation and erases our doubts and fears.

[Chico23231]

So its Santana and Josh Morgan killing the team? ummm no. I would agree to an extent that the coaching staff is not doing a very good job with the offense.

RG3 throwing mechanics are not right, your not watching if you dont see it. His accuracy stat is most tell'ing and this has nothing to do with Moss, Morgan. He is missing bad on some throws. Some high, some timing and touch, and some just plain long. Sometime he stands tall and delievers the ball in the face of pressure, sometimes he gets happy feet and doesnt. He's inconsistent. The thing is, it all can be fixed.......if he is truely healthy. If he knee is not, he will continue to struggle.

[scowan]

I know this is an Offensive thread, but I have to throw out a Defensive observation from the Packers game. The Redskins came out all over Rodgers with 3 sacks early. then the Packers adjusted to quick throws and a lot of 3 yard outs and other short patterns you see Welker run a lot of in Denver and previously New England. The Redskins corners started playing off their WRs by 7-10 yards and allowing all of these quick passes and Jim Hasslet did not adjust and it was over.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by scowan

I know this is an Offensive thread, but I have to throw out a Defensive observation from the Packers game. The Redskins came out all over Rodgers with 3 sacks early. then the Packers adjusted to quick throws and a lot of 3 yard outs and other short patterns you see Welker run a lot of in Denver and previously New England. The Redskins corners started playing off their WRs by 7-10 yards and allowing all of these quick passes and Jim Hasslet did not adjust and it was over.

The lack of defensive adjustments was alarming in the Packers game, but was evident in the second half of the Eagles game. I almost want to throw that one out due to the unknown of their offense and the way we gave them the ball on a short field. BUT the Packers game was a different story all together. Fletch looked flat out bad in that game and was having real trouble getting the guys lined up on defense.

[Daseal]

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

Good post I agree with all of this , the Q will be if/when RG3 can be the same player again

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Good post I agree with all of this , the Q will be if/when RG3 can be the same player again

I have no doubt that he will be. The only question I have is will it be soon? I have a feeling that next year the kid is all the way back and is damn impressive. With that said there is no way I would start anyone other than III while he his getting up to speed. All of this Cousins talk is ridiculous.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

Excellent post. Thank you.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

Great post man. I have my doubts whether he's 100%.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

Good Post.. Basically everything I said in a more summarized version on the first page. I'm glad we agree.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

Good post, Daseal.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

I too agree with all this also,theres no way Rg3 is 100%.He's about 60% of what he was last yr if that.
His total qbr rating pretty much says it all,he's only ahead of Brandon Weeden and Blaine Gabbert
2013 NFL Player Passing Stats - National Football League - ESPN

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I can't buy the arguments, GTripp. RG3 hasn't been able to move this offense until the game is already out of reach. The only time our games have been competitive is between kickoff and 13:00 minutes remaining in the first quarter. I do not believe all of our woes are because of RG3, but many of them are on RG3.

Here are some of my casual observations from the two games thus far:
1) RG3 is not planting and throwing. His mechanics have gone to hell and I believe that is because of the status of his knee. He's throwing it sideways and he rarely drops back, plants, and fires.
2) Because he's using poor mechanics, we're seeing a lot more balls sail on him. This kid used to deliver balls on a frozen rope, that is gone. He is no longer delivering with the velocity and accuracy he did in the past. I understand he's going from the pocket now, but it remains that he's not delivering like he had.
3) I want to emphasize WHEN he's put up his numbers. In the GB game it was 31-0 before we scored our first points in the 3rd quarter. At that point, the defense isn't worried about putting pressure on the QB and making big plays. They're concerned with working the clock and giving underneath throws. The first game was the exact same way before we scored our first offensive TD. We are scoring in the 4th quarter and 3rd quarter. At this point, defenses have already softened and they're working on the clock.
4) The commentators you blast, many of them have had the same type of procedures. Everyone said it took a significant amount of time to come back and feel comfortable. While the only person that can truly answer this question is RG3 himself -- I believe the consensus is that these procedures often require more time to heal -- both physically and mentally.

Just to briefly respond to the points of disagreement.

A lot of this analysis is based off the Green Bay game. Perhaps RG3 should be docked for having two or three balls sail over the intended target against Philadelphia, but the accuracy wasn't really an issue against Green Bay. He completed 65% and threw some in-completions because he tried forcing a couple passes to receivers that weren't open, usually on third downs.

If you thought Griffin was a big-time plant-and-fire guy last season, I don't know how to respond. He can clearly rip it, but he's not a consistent strider, and you have to keep that in mind when concluding that he's "not stepping into his throws." There are some throws he isn't stepping into, others he is, and this isn't all that different from last season.

You point out his ball velocity is affected. I just don't think it is, like, at all. This would be something that would be cool if we could see it measured objectively, but I don't have a way of doing that. I can tell you that he isn't underthrowing receivers any more often than last year, but I haven't seen data on the actual ball velocity. It just looks normal to me. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong about that.