Redskins Lions postgame

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm just insanely frustrated with how thins have turned out. I don't know.

I tend to agree that Robert is getting better with each game. We just have to patient. This is only his third game this year. Didn't get much work in training camp or preseason. I really think things will click with this team. As bad as the defense has been, I can't imagine where'd we be without Kerrigan and some of the plays by D.Hall. We'll find our way.

A change in defensive coaching might be in order. I don't know if Rah is the answer, but Has' time may have run it's course here in D.C. Bottom line, until Robert starts to turn it up a notch the team will probably continue to play spotty instead of dominating football.

I mean how is it that the redskins get worse after a 10 win season?? It just sucks man, I was really looking forward to this year and it really seems like it's already over

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I mean how is it that the redskins get worse after a 10 win season?? It just sucks man, I was really looking forward to this year and it really seems like it's already over

One important thing to keep in mind: teams that have great continuity from year to year don't have great continuity because they fear changing their starters, they just have a great player development system that promotes players from within right when they are entering their prime.

The Redskins don't have this. They didn't promote even one starter from within between 2012 and 2013. So what they have is the second oldest team in football (after the one that just beat us) thats just hanging on to declining vets because they feel they are limited to replace them only through current year draft picks and free agents (cap space).

So while it was a pretty impressive accomplishment that they were able to keep last year's team together, it also meant they're really struggling to improve the roster on last year.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

One important thing to keep in mind: teams that have great continuity from year to year don't have great continuity because they fear changing their starters, they just have a great player development system that promotes players from within right when they are entering their prime.

The Redskins don't have this. They didn't promote even one starter from within between 2012 and 2013. So what they have is the second oldest team in football (after the one that just beat us) thats just hanging on to declining vets because they feel they are limited to replace them only through current year draft picks and free agents (cap space).

So while it was a pretty impressive accomplishment that they were able to keep last year's team together, it also meant they're really struggling to improve the roster on last year.

I think alot of that ties back to the cap penalty.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

One important thing to keep in mind: teams that have great continuity from year to year don't have great continuity because they fear changing their starters, they just have a great player development system that promotes players from within right when they are entering their prime.

The Redskins don't have this. They didn't promote even one starter from within between 2012 and 2013. So what they have is the second oldest team in football (after the one that just beat us) thats just hanging on to declining vets because they feel they are limited to replace them only through current year draft picks and free agents (cap space).

So while it was a pretty impressive accomplishment that they were able to keep last year's team together, it also meant they're really struggling to improve the roster on last year.

I think that goes back to the cap hit we took the past two years.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think that goes back to the cap hit we took the past two years.

Cap penalty or no cap penalty, a football team can choose it's veterans. You're stuck with the young talent you bring in because of rookie contracts and the waivers system, but the veteran market is different. You can always save money by cutting.

If the players in their first three seasons were struggling, and that's why the team was 0-3, you might suggest that the cap penalty was limiting the team from getting enough talent to compete. But the young players who were drafted have been thrust into the lineup almost immediately and have more than held their own.

If you make a list of guys who aren't helping, you get Fletcher and Meriweather near the top, but also Fred Davis, Will Montgomery, Tyler Polumbus, Stephen Bowen, Adam Carriker, and probably Josh Morgan (though I'm feeling more charatable yesterday after AlfMo's TD run). There's just a ton of cap dollars tied up there that have nothing to do with the penalty.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Cap penalty or no cap penalty, a football team can choose it's veterans. You're stuck with the young talent you bring in because of rookie contracts and the waivers system, but the veteran market is different. You can always save money by cutting.

If the players in their first three seasons were struggling, and that's why the team was 0-3, you might suggest that the cap penalty was limiting the team from getting enough talent to compete. But the young players who were drafted have been thrust into the lineup almost immediately and have more than held their own.

If you make a list of guys who aren't helping, you get Fletcher and Meriweather near the top, but also Fred Davis, Will Montgomery, Tyler Polumbus, Stephen Bowen, Adam Carriker, and probably Josh Morgan (though I'm feeling more charatable yesterday after AlfMo's TD run). There's just a ton of cap dollars tied up there that have nothing to do with the penalty.

I don't think your last sentence/paragraph is particularly accurate, the cap penalty not only limits spending, but precludes "arbitrary" use of dead space. We could have cut one or two of the players you listed, but it would have forced more restructures that the team obviously wanted to avoid. I am also surprised to see Bowen in your list, because my understanding is his play hasn't been in the category of Meriweather/Davis/Carriker, and once Jenkins/Jackson are back in the rotation, I imagine our front will have a better rotation to it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't think your last sentence/paragraph is particularly accurate, the cap penalty not only limits spending, but precludes "arbitrary" use of dead space. We could have cut one or two of the players you listed, but it would have forced more restructures that the team obviously wanted to avoid. I am also surprised to see Bowen in your list, because my understanding is his play hasn't been in the category of Meriweather/Davis/Carriker, and once Jenkins/Jackson are back in the rotation, I imagine our front will have a better rotation to it.

No, Bowen hasn't been underperforming (or not performing) like Meriweather, Davis, Carriker have, but he's in a different pay grade. Cofield is in that pay grade, but Cofield is arguably our most dependable defensive player, a lever of performance you expect for $6 mil/year.

My point is not that the cap penalty isn't constraining the team at some level, it clearly is, but rather that at the rate we waste money, $18 million extra in cap space isn't buying us a 2-1 start or even a 1-2 start. It probably makes Baccari Rambo a backup, but I really think that for the most part the coaches to a man would vouch for the roster they built. It's strictly a player selection issue: these vets we have are not the very best that were available to us.

The draft pick value we gave up in the RG3 trade constrained the organization a lot worse than the cap penalty did.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I mean how is it that the redskins get worse after a 10 win season?? It just sucks man, I was really looking forward to this year and it really seems like it's already over

I get the offensive problems with griff coming back from injury, but the defense truly is epically bad. Most of these guys have been in this system 3 years and are starting thier fourth.

Terrible mess.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

I get the offensive problems with griff coming back from injury, but the defense truly is epically bad. Most of these guys have been in this system 3 years and are starting thier fourth.

Terrible mess.

To me, the defense being a mess, is that really honest to god a surprise? Did we watch last year?

The surprise is the offense. Kyle is doing a terrible job, and like Garcon said today, RG3 is not healthy. Thats the main reason we need to run the ball.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

To me, the defense being a mess, is that really honest to god a surprise? Did we watch last year?

The surprise is the offense. Kyle is doing a terrible job, and like Garcon said today, RG3 is not healthy. Thats the main reason we need to run the ball.

When did garçon say he wasn't healthy? I thought that was last week, and I disagree with the guy he looked alot healthier yesterday than he did in weeks 16,17, and wildcard game last year.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

When did garçon say he wasn't healthy? I thought that was last week, and I disagree with the guy he looked alot healthier yesterday than he did in weeks 16,17, and wildcard game last year.

Got an email couple hours ago from someone at work so probably radio this morning?

Yeah RG3 looked alot better weeks 16 and 17. I think the knee brace is really really bothering him.


So Tripp you get rid of Kyle? Thats a little much. I actually look to bring back Fred Davis into the game plan and i'd go under center with RG3 and put Young back there with Alfmo more. Id use Helu much more in the running and passing game. Id think about putting Helu and Alf in the back field together and motion Helu out wide some. Less WR screens, more RB screens.

[chewman]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Got an email couple hours ago from someone at work so probably radio this morning?

Yeah RG3 looked alot better weeks 16 and 17. I think the knee brace is really really bothering him.


So Tripp you get rid of Kyle? Thats a little much. I actually look to bring back Fred Davis into the game plan and i'd go under center with RG3 and put Young back there with Alfmo more. Id use Helu much more in the running and passing game. Id think about putting Helu and Alf in the back field together and motion Helu out wide some. Less WR screens, more RB screens.

Chris Russell tweeted saying that Garcon said RG3 is not fully healthy and last years RG3 was a lot different than this years RG3.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by chewman

Chris Russell tweeted saying that Garcon said RG3 is not fully healthy and last years RG3 was a lot different than this years RG3.

I don't think any of us needed garçon or a reporter tell us that, but the fact a player in the locker room is saying it publicly could become a problem the team doesn't need.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Got an email couple hours ago from someone at work so probably radio this morning?

Yeah RG3 looked alot better weeks 16 and 17. I think the knee brace is really really bothering him.


So Tripp you get rid of Kyle? Thats a little much. I actually look to bring back Fred Davis into the game plan and i'd go under center with RG3 and put Young back there with Alfmo more. Id use Helu much more in the running and passing game. Id think about putting Helu and Alf in the back field together and motion Helu out wide some. Less WR screens, more RB screens.

To be honest, I'm just surprised that some event hasn't come up yet that has moved one or both Shanahan's on from the organization. I've never thought it would be a firing, but in the business world, they call it "reorganization!" or "new opportunity!"

Mike's the highest paid/year guy in the entire org after Garcon. No other player is making 7 mil/year. And because it's fully guaranteed, he's the guy I stick with the mess he created and tell him to clean it up. But unlike the Zorn fiasco, I want him to actually have the resources to make a real difference on the field this year. If he needs to go get a player like Josh Gordon, then he should be able to go get a player like Josh Gordon.

Basically, the solution is you take a sledgehammer to the team's power structure, and hope that someone already in the building can find the ingenuity to bring the team back from the abyss. If it works, great, you can rebuild the staff in the offseason under Lord Shanahan and remove all the interim tags. If it doesn't work, then you know you need new leadership at the top.

And with Griffin under contract, it's the most single lucrative job in the NFL. Bruce Allen will get all the best candidates to interview, should it come to that.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

To be honest, I'm just surprised that some event hasn't come up yet that has moved one or both Shanahan's on from the organization. I've never thought it would be a firing, but in the business world, they call it "reorganization!" or "new opportunity!"

Mike's the highest paid/year guy in the entire org after Garcon. No other player is making 7 mil/year. And because it's fully guaranteed, he's the guy I stick with the mess he created and tell him to clean it up. But unlike the Zorn fiasco, I want him to actually have the resources to make a real difference on the field this year. If he needs to go get a player like Josh Gordon, then he should be able to go get a player like Josh Gordon.

Basically, the solution is you take a sledgehammer to the team's power structure, and hope that someone already in the building can find the ingenuity to bring the team back from the abyss. If it works, great, you can rebuild the staff in the offseason under Lord Shanahan and remove all the interim tags. If it doesn't work, then you know you need new leadership at the top.

And with Griffin under contract, it's the most single lucrative job in the NFL. Bruce Allen will get all the best candidates to interview, should it come to that.

You do Cousins for Josh Gordon? id strongly consider it.