So... The Government is Shut Down...

[Lotus]

I have four friends who now are going without a paycheck because of the shutdown. It is hitting them very hard. And I live in podunk Mississippi...I can only imagine the economic pain to many in the DC area, for example.

It's just not fair when you can't pay the rent, you can't fix your car, you're worried about feeding the kids, etc.

The Affordable Care Act was established through democratic legislative, executive, and judicial processes. Don't like it? Then do the democratic thing and get enough people elected to overturn it. Don't hold the whole country hostage.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I have four friends who now are going without a paycheck because of the shutdown. It is hitting them very hard. And I live in podunk Mississippi...I can only imagine the economic pain to many in the DC area, for example.

It's just not fair when you can't pay the rent, you can't fix your car, you're worried about feeding the kids, etc.

The Affordable Care Act was established through democratic legislative, executive, and judicial processes. Don't like it? Then do the democratic thing and get enough people elected to overturn it. Don't hold the whole country hostage.

I understand your points Lotus, but when you say get enough people elected to overturn it, the House is the place the Constitution says has to start the yearly budgeting, and there are enough in the House to overturn it. That should, in my opinion, at least be enough of a reason that a President elected to serve all the people, not just those that agree with him, ought to consider a delay of implementation and then have the issue revisited after the next election.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I understand your points Lotus, but when you say get enough people elected to overturn it, the House is the place the Constitution says has to start the yearly budgeting, and there are enough in the House to overturn it. That should, in my opinion, at least be enough of a reason that a President elected to serve all the people, not just those that agree with him, ought to consider a delay of implementation and then have the issue revisited after the next election.

Actually my friend, Congress includes both House and Senate, and despite 40 plus attempts the ACA has not been overturned. That is democracy at work.

The House is charged to fund initiatives which have become law. The ACA is one of those initiatives. It is a law. So Congress can overturn the law (which has not happened) or Congress can fund the government, including the ACA. By shutting things down, a small group of representatives are (a) not doing what they are charged to do, and (b) undemocratically holding the country hostage.

The shutdown was enacted not by the will of the people but by 80 representatives. That is not democracy. In terms of process, it is actually closer to oligarchic fascism.

I am no great fan of the ACA. But the will of the people is expressed through more than just some members of the House.

[Lotus]

On the lighter side, those who are looking forward to new craft beers can wait longer, thanks to the shutdown:

Government shutdown could hit craft beer industry - San Diego craft beer | Examiner.com

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually my friend, Congress includes both House and Senate, and despite 40 plus attempts the ACA has not been overturned. That is democracy at work.

The House is charged to fund initiatives which have become law. The ACA is one of those initiatives. It is a law. So Congress can overturn the law (which has not happened) or Congress can fund the government, including the ACA. By shutting things down, a small group of representatives are (a) not doing what they are charged to do, and (b) undemocratically holding the country hostage.

The shutdown was enacted not by the will of the people but by 80 representatives. That is not democracy. In terms of process, it is actually closer to oligarchic fascism.

I am no great fan of the ACA. But the will of the people is expressed through more than just some members of the House.

Bravo , well said ! You hit it right on the head !

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually my friend, Congress includes both House and Senate, and despite 40 plus attempts the ACA has not been overturned. That is democracy at work.

The House is charged to fund initiatives which have become law. The ACA is one of those initiatives. It is a law. So Congress can overturn the law (which has not happened) or Congress can fund the government, including the ACA. By shutting things down, a small group of representatives are (a) not doing what they are charged to do, and (b) undemocratically holding the country hostage.

The shutdown was enacted not by the will of the people but by 80 representatives. That is not democracy. In terms of process, it is actually closer to oligarchic fascism.

I am no great fan of the ACA. But the will of the people is expressed through more than just some members of the House.

Ok, so the law was passed why does the president now have the choice to delay parts of the law as he feels fit? Seems they want it both ways. Funny he delayed the employer mandate until after the next elections. Also the Rep. said they would sign off on the budget if congress and federal employess where also included under Obama Care. What's good for me and you should also be good for them. How about the unions and the 100's of large corporations they excluded from Obama Care?

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so the law was passed why does the president now have the choice to delay parts of the law as he feels fit? Seems they want it both ways. Funny he delayed the employer mandate until after the next elections. Also the Rep. said they would sign off on the budget if congress and federal employess where also included under Obama Care. What's good for me and you should also be good for them. How about the unions and the 100's of large corporations they excluded from Obama Care?

Absolutely 100% correct. And the Senate could have left Obamacare separated from government funding, and they didn't. Obama could have said lets delay the ACA by a year for everyone because of all the issues, and he didn't. Democrats have had many options to work with Republicans and they decided not to.

What the hell is a non-essential government job anyway? Theres no such thing as a non-essential private sector job. I have to believe at least half of the furlong jobs are ones that should be eliminated anyway.

I always feel bad for people who lose their jobs or their incomes but that's life for everyone, not just life for the private industry. There are risks in life. If you take a job in a non-essential department of a company that's $16 trillion in debt then you shouldn't be surprised when theres a disruption in your income. You shouldn't be surprised if you get laid off. You should expect that those things are likely to happen, and you should be trying to find another job and attempting to shield yourself as much as possible from needing and expecting an income from an unstable employer.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so the law was passed why does the president now have the choice to delay parts of the law as he feels fit? Seems they want it both ways. Funny he delayed the employer mandate until after the next elections. Also the Rep. said they would sign off on the budget if congress and federal employess where also included under Obama Care. What's good for me and you should also be good for them. How about the unions and the 100's of large corporations they excluded from Obama Care?

Congress could have stood up to Obama on the delays and forced him to enact the ACA more quickly. It didn't.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Actually my friend, Congress includes both House and Senate, and despite 40 plus attempts the ACA has not been overturned. That is democracy at work.

The House is charged to fund initiatives which have become law. The ACA is one of those initiatives. It is a law. So Congress can overturn the law (which has not happened) or Congress can fund the government, including the ACA. By shutting things down, a small group of representatives are (a) not doing what they are charged to do, and (b) undemocratically holding the country hostage.

The shutdown was enacted not by the will of the people but by 80 representatives. That is not democracy. In terms of process, it is actually closer to oligarchic fascism.

I am no great fan of the ACA. But the will of the people is expressed through more than just some members of the House.

You know that the Senate only turns over at a snails pace of 6 years, and add in members on both sides of the aisle that have been in their spot for nearly 30+ years, and that part of the Congress is reflective more of the "protectorate" of the Congress.

The House of Representatives turns over every two years, if they aren't expressing what their constituents want, they are gone. It obviously leads to more extreme responses, but it also reflects the divide of the nation. A big part of my feelings on this are tied up in my distrust for government overall, and the more gridlock they have the happier I am, but even with that, it doesn't seem like a major effort on the President's part to recognize that the ACA is not something that is wanted by a strong majority in the nation, and that maybe delaying it, and seeing if there are other ways to resolve the differences might work.

I certainly would be more willing to agree if something like 70% (or a super majority) in polling data was in favor of it, but most everything I see is about a 50% split, which means that you are forcing half the country to abide by something they don't want. That seems wrong.

Health Care Law - Rasmussen Reports™

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I have four friends who now are going without a paycheck because of the shutdown. It is hitting them very hard.

According to Fox news.....it's not doing much of anything. Why? Because it doesn't affect them, nor do they care about anybody else.


Jon Stewart To Fox Hosts: F*ck You For Mocking The Poor | Video Cafe

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

According to Fox news.....it's not doing much of anything. Why? Because it doesn't affect them, nor do they care about anybody else.


Jon Stewart To Fox Hosts: F*ck You For Mocking The Poor | Video Cafe

Fox "News": Forever Unfair and Unbalanced.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

According to Fox news.....it's not doing much of anything. Why? Because it doesn't affect them, nor do they care about anybody else.


Jon Stewart To Fox Hosts: F*ck You For Mocking The Poor | Video Cafe

LOL. Once again Fox News reports a satire story to be true "news." Note to Fox News: please hire a fact checker.

Fox Falls For Fake Story About Obama Personally Funding Muslim Museum During Shutdown | Blog | Media Matters for America

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Lotus

LOL. Once again Fox News reports a satire story to be true "news." Note to Fox News: please hire a fact checker.

Fox Falls For Fake Story About Obama Personally Funding Muslim Museum During Shutdown | Blog | Media Matters for America

On October 5, the co-hosts of Fox & Friends Saturday discussed the closure of the World War II Memorial, which resulted from the Republican-led shutdown. During the discussion, co-host Anna Kooiman claimed that while the memorial is closed, "President Obama has offered to pay out of his own pocket for the museum of Muslim culture."

Funny they jump on fox for reporting about the Museum and then they add the highlighted part. The shutdown had nothing to do with the closure of the WW II Memorail and was only done because Whitehouse ordered it to be done. They tried stopping WW II vets who flew out to see the Memorial but they pushed the steel barriers (ones that had to be added to shut down the memorail) and went on anyways.