Do You Unequivocally Believe RG3 Is Our Franchise QB?

[Bucket]

Lots of good things about this current team. Collinsworth said it best. We are only a few vital pieces away and a healthy RG3. My opinion though. Wont force it down anyone's throat

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Lots of good things about this current team. Collinsworth said it best. We are only a few vital pieces away and a healthy RG3. My opinion though. Wont force it down anyone's throat

I don't think Collinsworth is right, although a healthy, prepared RG3 is going to make a lot of things look a lot better.

The OL is years away, and they're going to have to develop a receiver who can make plays outside the numbers the way Reed makes plays inside them. Defensively, they are going to go with a new philosophy and that can turn a team around really fast. Hard to tell if it will, though.

The big issue though is no first round pick, so they'll be picking from a group of players who other teams passed on. You can find someone good in the second round, but they need someone who is a game changer to win next year, and that player just might not be available at the top of the second round.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think Collinsworth is right, although a healthy, prepared RG3 is going to make a lot of things look a lot better.

The OL is years away, and they're going to have to develop a receiver who can make plays outside the numbers the way Reed makes plays inside them. Defensively, they are going to go with a new philosophy and that can turn a team around really fast. Hard to tell if it will, though.

The big issue though is no first round pick, so they'll be picking from a group of players who other teams passed on. You can find someone good in the second round, but they need someone who is a game changer to win next year, and that player just might not be available at the top of the second round.

I don't see how the offensive line is "years away". Don't we lead the league in rushing since the beginning of last year? A lot of that has to do with RG3 last year, but the O Line definitely had something to do with Alfred Morris being as successful as he has been. The right side needs to be upgraded, no doubt, but to say years away is a big stretch in my opinion.

Additionally with respect to the draft, you find very few game changers after the top 8 or so in the draft - at least not in their rookie seasons. There is a difference between game changers and impact players, which I think is a more reasonable description of what you will find in the latter part of round 1 through round 3. I just don't think there is a lot of separation in talent there.

With free agency (that we will be able to participate in this year), the draft picks we have, and allowing this offense to have a complete offseason together, I am confident that this team will take a huge step forward next year.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I don't see how the offensive line is "years away". Don't we lead the league in rushing since the beginning of last year? A lot of that has to do with RG3 last year, but the O Line definitely had something to do with Alfred Morris being as successful as he has been. The right side needs to be upgraded, no doubt, but to say years away is a big stretch in my opinion.

Additionally with respect to the draft, you find very few game changers after the top 8 or so in the draft - at least not in their rookie seasons. There is a difference between game changers and impact players, which I think is a more reasonable description of what you will find in the latter part of round 1 through round 3. I just don't think there is a lot of separation in talent there.

With free agency (that we will be able to participate in this year), the draft picks we have, and allowing this offense to have a complete offseason together, I am confident that this team will take a huge step forward next year.

If you have to change four starters, and we have to change at least three, it's going to take a while to get the right guys on the team. Quality tackles don't come available in free agency very often. Good guards can be found, but they tend to be pretty expensive. Centers are cheaper and easier to find, like for example we can slide Kory over if we thing he's lacking athleticism to play left guard. But we need lots of pieces and we're limited in our resources.

If we're picking in the second round and a receiver we really like is available as well as a starting quality RT, who do you take? The issue of course is not what you prefer, but the reason you are a year away is because you need both and can only take one.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If you have to change four starters, and we have to change at least three, it's going to take a while to get the right guys on the team. Quality tackles don't come available in free agency very often. Good guards can be found, but they tend to be pretty expensive. Centers are cheaper and easier to find, like for example we can slide Kory over if we thing he's lacking athleticism to play left guard. But we need lots of pieces and we're limited in our resources.

If we're picking in the second round and a receiver we really like is available as well as a starting quality RT, who do you take? The issue of course is not what you prefer, but the reason you are a year away is because you need both and can only take one.

I guess that depends on what you are saying we are a year away from. I mean nobody has five all stars on the O-line. I'm just talking about serviceable players that will open lanes for Morris and company, and give RG time to get through his progressions - the only way he will be able to improve as a passer. I think with some of the pieces we already have and some of the pieces we can likely pick up in FA and the draft, we can drastically improve the O-line which will make the whole offense much better.

And I would take the RT providing we hadn't upgraded hat position already in free agency.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I guess that depends on what you are saying we are a year away from. I mean nobody has five all stars on the O-line. I'm just talking about serviceable players that will open lanes for Morris and company, and give RG time to get through his progressions - the only way he will be able to improve as a passer. I think with some of the pieces we already have and some of the pieces we can likely pick up in FA and the draft, we can drastically improve the O-line which will make the whole offense much better.

And I would take the RT providing we hadn't upgraded hat position already in free agency.

I think the line right now is full of those serviceable players. Frankly, if you wanted to add another receiver that can get behind a defense, improve special teams performance so we don't have the worst starting field position in the NFL, and put a defense on the field that can win games 13-10, then this OL group is adequate. So they're already there.

But an improved line would allow Griffin to start ripping defenses apart from the pocket with room to step up? That would make this offense fun to watch. And that will take some time, but it's an investment worth making, IMO.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

I guess that depends on what you are saying we are a year away from. I mean nobody has five all stars on the O-line. I'm just talking about serviceable players that will open lanes for Morris and company, and give RG time to get through his progressions - the only way he will be able to improve as a passer. I think with some of the pieces we already have and some of the pieces we can likely pick up in FA and the draft, we can drastically improve the O-line which will make the whole offense much better.

And I would take the RT providing we hadn't upgraded hat position already in free agency.

Wasn't Morris 92 yards away from being the league leader in rushing just a few games ago? Before Darrel Young went down? And while pass pro is far from perfect, statue-esque QBs across the league routinely buy more time in the pocket while keeping their eyes downfield.

Glass half full way to look at the current situation is to hope RG3 is becoming better at moving around in the pocket. With injuries along the o-line being a common occurrence for most teams, every QB will eventually have to learn to be effective even when 5 seconds in the pocket can't be guaranteed on every pass play.

The Packers and Steelers were still good in years when they couldn't protect Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben worth a damn. There are lots of QBs that can be successful under ideal circumstances, but who goes an entire career where everything around them is perfect?

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If you have to change four starters, and we have to change at least three, it's going to take a while to get the right guys on the team. Quality tackles don't come available in free agency very often. Good guards can be found, but they tend to be pretty expensive. Centers are cheaper and easier to find, like for example we can slide Kory over if we thing he's lacking athleticism to play left guard. But we need lots of pieces and we're limited in our resources.

If we're picking in the second round and a receiver we really like is available as well as a starting quality RT, who do you take? The issue of course is not what you prefer, but the reason you are a year away is because you need both and can only take one.

Depends on what you can address in free agency or via young guys already on the roster. Maybe you take the Lineman, although Shanny's MO is to take linemen in the later rounds, and hope that with a full off-season RG3 stops wildly over throwing open receivers and learns to throw with anticipation. It's entirely plausible. Teams get significantly better or worse all the time without major changes in personnel.

This years examples - skins, panthers, falcons, texans and to a lesser extent maybe, the lions. It's why the NFL went 16 years in a row with at least 5 new teams in the playoffs each year.

And even if we did have the right talent, injuries can change everything. The NFL is totally unpredictable.

Getting 2012 production from RG3 is worth 4-5 wins alone.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think Collinsworth is right, although a healthy, prepared RG3 is going to make a lot of things look a lot better.

The OL is years away, and they're going to have to develop a receiver who can make plays outside the numbers the way Reed makes plays inside them. Defensively, they are going to go with a new philosophy and that can turn a team around really fast. Hard to tell if it will, though.

The big issue though is no first round pick, so they'll be picking from a group of players who other teams passed on. You can find someone good in the second round, but they need someone who is a game changer to win next year, and that player just might not be available at the top of the second round.

LOL! That's not how it works Tripp. Just because a player isn't drafted in the first round doesn't mean he is passed up nor does it mean he can't be a game changer. By that logic, Joe Montana would not have been a game changer and most certainly Tom Brady would definitely not have been a game changer. While not having a first round pick sucks, it's not the end of the world. There is plenty of value in the lower rounds. In fact, that is where Bobby Beathard earned most of his paycheck was those mid to late round draft picks for the Redskins. The team can still bring in quality players in the second round and on, and they still have a chance of picking up a game changer. In fact, I tend to have more faith in 2nd rounders and on than I do first round picks.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

LOL! That's not how it works Tripp. Just because a player isn't drafted in the first round doesn't mean he is passed up nor does it mean he can't be a game changer. By that logic, Joe Montana would not have been a game changer and most certainly Tom Brady would definitely not have been a game changer. While not having a first round pick sucks, it's not the end of the world. There is plenty of value in the lower rounds. In fact, that is where Bobby Beathard earned most of his paycheck was those mid to late round draft picks for the Redskins. The team can still bring in quality players in the second round and on, and they still have a chance of picking up a game changer. In fact, I tend to have more faith in 2nd rounders and on than I do first round picks.

Sigh.

Joe Montana was drafted in 1979. Tom Brady was drafted in 2000. Bobby Beathard retired 15 years ago. Probably not the best examples of how the draft works today.

Anyway, the point isn't who you could get, but who you are likely to get.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Sigh.

Joe Montana was drafted in 1979. Tom Brady was drafted in 2000. Bobby Beathard retired 15 years ago. Probably not the best examples of how the draft works today.

Anyway, the point isn't who you could get, but who you are likely to get.

How about Russell Wilson in the 3rd? Where was Richard Sherman drafted? Victor Cruz? Arian Foster? Recent enough? How about that honey badger fella. How's he doing? Or that 1991 Mazda dude taken in the 6th?

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Sigh.

Joe Montana was drafted in 1979. Tom Brady was drafted in 2000. Bobby Beathard retired 15 years ago. Probably not the best examples of how the draft works today.

Anyway, the point isn't who you could get, but who you are likely to get.

Doesn't matter if Joe Montana was drafted in '79 or 2009, it doesn't change the fact that in every year, there's almost always players drafted in later rounds that wind up having great NFL careers, if not Hall of Fame careers. This will continue to be true as long as the NFL exists.

You seem to think that teams who do not have a round one pick are severely handicapped and have to choose from a list of players who were passed up by other teams. Simply not the case. While some players occasionally drop out of the first round, most players go in the rounds that they were projected to be drafted in. That doesn't mean that round one picks live up to that potential, as well as it doesn't mean later round picks are left overs. My simple point - which is why I mentioned Bobby Beathard - is that finding great players for great value is where general managers make their money. That is often where championships are earned. And that will always be the case as long as the NFL exists.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Doesn't matter if Joe Montana was drafted in '79 or 2009, it doesn't change the fact that in every year, there's almost always players drafted in later rounds that wind up having great NFL careers, if not Hall of Fame careers. This will continue to be true as long as the NFL exists.

You seem to think that teams who do not have a round one pick are severely handicapped and have to choose from a list of players who were passed up by other teams. Simply not the case. While some players occasionally drop out of the first round, most players go in the rounds that they were projected to be drafted in. That doesn't mean that round one picks live up to that potential, as well as it doesn't mean later round picks are left overs. My simple point - which is why I mentioned Bobby Beathard - is that finding great players for great value is where general managers make their money. That is often where championships are earned. And that will always be the case as long as the NFL exists.

And for most of the Snyder era, we have traded draft picks away like cheap confetti. While I'm still in favor of the Griffin trade, here are a few stinkers that come to mind:

2004: Trading Champ Bailey AND a #2 to Denver for Portis. Denver should have been giving us their #2 given the value of a shutdown CB.
2004: Trading a #3 for Mark Brunnell (he was about to get cut by Jax)
2006: Trading a #3 and #4 for Brandon Lloyd
2006: Trading a 2007 #3 and #4 for T.J. Duckett
2009: Trading a #2 for Jason Taylor
2010: Trading a #2 for McNabb
2010: Trading a #3 for Jammal Brown

I probably missed some. There are good players to be found in rounds 2 thru 4, so my point is that we consistently traded away our best resource for finding value-priced talent and quality depth. This has been an ongoing organizational FAIL for years. God forbid if Griffin doesn't develop into a franchise QB in the next couple years since he cost three #1 picks and a #2.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

And for most of the Snyder era, we have traded draft picks away like cheap confetti. While I'm still in favor of the Griffin trade, here are a few stinkers that come to mind:

2004: Trading Champ Bailey AND a #2 to Denver for Portis. Denver should have been giving us their #2 given the value of a shutdown CB.
2004: Trading a #3 for Mark Brunnell (he was about to get cut by Jax)
2006: Trading a #3 and #4 for Brandon Lloyd
2006: Trading a 2007 #3 and #4 for T.J. Duckett
2009: Trading a #2 for Jason Taylor
2010: Trading a #2 for McNabb
2010: Trading a #3 for Jammal Brown

I probably missed some. There are good players to be found in rounds 2 thru 4, so my point is that we consistently traded away our best resource for finding value-priced talent and quality depth. This has been an ongoing organizational FAIL for years. God forbid if Griffin doesn't develop into a franchise QB in the next couple years since he cost three #1 picks and a #2.

We also gave up a # 1 , 2 & 4 for JC and a #2 and #6 for Rocky M. ..... Thank god Vinny is gone . And the 3 #2's for the three amigo's

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Lots of good things about this current team. Collinsworth said it best. We are only a few vital pieces away and a healthy RG3. My opinion though. Wont force it down anyone's throat

I don't see a lot of good things at all. Morris, Garçon, Williams and Hall are really the only players that have consistently show up week in week out this year. Literally, everywhere else is question marks. Right now, I think Jacksonville is better than we are.