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[offiss]

I think whomever wrote that article is trying to convince someone he actually knows what he's talking about.

I can't believe he's comparing Antonio Brown, to Ramsey, as if there was any comparison from a QB to a kick returner, and Gibbs promised him nothing more than a tryout thats it. This comparison is absolutly ridiculous. Listen up artee, and answer me one question, when is the last time you heard a team grooming a kick returner for 2 years? That's right never! Why you ask? There is a big difference between the QB position and kick returner, you see at kick returner you either have it, or you don't, it's pretty simple. But at QB you need time to grow at the position, a big part of a QB's success is the continuity he developes with the players around him, he needs to understand the offense and how the coach want's him to run it, we still have recievers running the wrong routes and people expect Ramsey to move the ball like Unitas. And let's get something else straight as well Gibbs played Antonio Brown the whole game, amazing isn't it, our return man gets a whole game to prove himself Ramsey gets 19 minutes great comparison. And please if your going to say he fumbled lets just count the ones we actually lose's, the guy is getting creamed hanging in the pocket trying to make a play while the defenses are sitting on our simplistic pass routes, don't you think the O-line bares the brunt of the responsibility for that fumble? Do you think the ref's also share in it being they couldn't make a call there? Yet they have no problem making a call when it's not there, ALA Ramseys TD capping drive to Cooley, which if the ref actually had any idea this controversy is null and void!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

I think whomever wrote that article is trying to convince someone he actually knows what he's talking about.

I can't believe he's comparing Antonio Brown, to Ramsey, as if there was any comparison from a QB to a kick returner, and Gibbs promised him nothing more than a tryout thats it. This comparison is absolutly ridiculous. Listen up artee, and answer me one question, when is the last time you heard a team grooming a kick returner for 2 years? That's right never! Why you ask? There is a big difference between the QB position and kick returner, you see at kick returner you either have it, or you don't, it's pretty simple. But at QB you need time to grow at the position, a big part of a QB's success is the continuity he developes with the players around him, he needs to understand the offense and how the coach want's him to run it, we still have recievers running the wrong routes and people expect Ramsey to move the ball like Unitas. And let's get something else straight as well Gibbs played Antonio Brown the whole game, amazing isn't it, our return man gets a whole game to prove himself Ramsey gets 19 minutes great comparison. And please if your going to say he fumbled lets just count the ones we actually lose's, the guy is getting creamed hanging in the pocket trying to make a play while the defenses are sitting on our simplistic pass routes, don't you think the O-line bares the brunt of the responsibility for that fumble? Do you think the ref's also share in it being they couldn't make a call there? Yet they have no problem making a call when it's not there, ALA Ramseys TD capping drive to Cooley, which if the ref actually had any idea this controversy is null and void!

Offiss,

You bring up some very good points. I think, however, that the author wasn't necessarily(sp) trying to directly compare Ramsey v. Brown. I think in context of Gibbs' decision making and the thought behind the dismissal of Brown and the benching of Ramsey, he was basically saying for us to win there are certain mistakes that have to be eliminated. Whether you are kick returner, starting QB, or perhaps an offensive lineman - Gibbs will make changes. And he'll be darned if he's gonna wait five, six or even nine games before he does it. I think this is what the author implied when comparing the two. I don't think he was comparing position v. position and how one impacts the game over the other. If that were the case, we're talking apples and oranges.

By the way, I do disagree with you on one point. Sir, Ramsey has most definitely had more than 19 minutes to prove himself. I think all of us would agree with that. And I know he has had several offensive coord. and head coaches and he's needed a chance to develop and so forth. But I think if we are going to make that argument for Ramsey shouldn't we make it for all the other Redskins that have had their development stunted by a system in constant flux?

Obviously this is just my point of view when I read the article. I might add, I thought the article was right on the money too!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Offiss,

You bring up some very good points. I think, however, that the author wasn't necessarily(sp) trying to directly compare Ramsey v. Brown. I think in context of Gibbs' decision making and the thought behind the dismissal of Brown and the benching of Ramsey, he was basically saying for us to win there are certain mistakes that have to be eliminated. Whether you are kick returner, starting QB, or perhaps an offensive lineman - Gibbs will make changes. And he'll be darned if he's gonna wait five, six or even nine games before he does it. I think this is what the author implied when comparing the two. I don't think he was comparing position v. position and how one impacts the game over the other. If that were the case, we're talking apples and oranges.

By the way, I do disagree with you on one point. Sir, Ramsey has most definitely had more than 19 minutes to prove himself. I think all of us would agree with that. And I know he has had several offensive coord. and head coaches and he's needed a chance to develop and so forth. But I think if we are going to make that argument for Ramsey shouldn't we make it for all the other Redskins that have had their development stunted by a system in constant flux?

Obviously this is just my point of view when I read the article. I might add, I thought the article was right on the money too!

Your really contradicting yourself, you say Gibbs is going to make changes and he'll be darned if he waits 5,6,or 9, games, who are you trying to kid here, he waited not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8, but 9 games before he replaced Brunell last season, who played the position as bad as I have ever seen.

The rest of your statements are all over the place I really don't know were to begin but I will try.

You stated that our offense is in constant flux and that all players should be afforded the same opportunity as Ramsey? Then you say we all can agree on the fact that he's had more than 19 minutes to prove himself, was he playing a pickup game in the parking lot I missed? What is it about the comparison between a KR and a QB you don't understand? Why is the QB the highest paid player in the league, and kick returners on the bottom of the food chain? Could it be becuase it's the most difficult position on the field and takes the longest to learn, it's taken some of the great QB's 3 years to develope in the same system playing every game, not 6 or 7 quarters in the pre-season.

Give me your reasons for say a player like Antonio Brown and how you believe his growth is stunted on special's. Because I know I can give you a 100 reason's and example after example, on why a QB need's time to develope, SIR!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

Your really contradicting yourself, you say Gibbs is going to make changes and he'll be darned if he waits 5,6,or 9, games, who are you trying to kid here, he waited not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7, not 8, but 9 games before he replaced Brunell last season, who played the position as bad as I have ever seen.

The rest of your statements are all over the place I really don't know were to begin but I will try.

You stated that our offense is in constant flux and that all players should be afforded the same opportunity as Ramsey? Then you say we all can agree on the fact that he's had more than 19 minutes to prove himself, was he playing a pickup game in the parking lot I missed? What is it about the comparison between a KR and a QB you don't understand? Why is the QB the highest paid player in the league, and kick returners on the bottom of the food chain? Could it be becuase it's the most difficult position on the field and takes the longest to learn, it's taken some of the great QB's 3 years to develope in the same system playing every game, not 6 or 7 quarters in the pre-season.

Give me your reasons for say a player like Antonio Brown and how you believe his growth is stunted on special's. Because I know I can give you a 100 reason's and example after example, on why a QB need's time to develope, SIR!

I won't defend my response point for point - take from it what you may. That's fine.

When I said Ramsey had more than 19 minutes to prove himself, obviously I was talking about more than just those 19 minutes. Ramsey has been with the Redskins for a few seasons now, entering his second with coach Gibbs. I think that certainly counts for more than 19 minutes of play.

[LadyT]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I won't defend my response point for point - take from it what you may. That's fine.

When I said Ramsey had more than 19 minutes to prove himself, obviously I was talking about more than just those 19 minutes. Ramsey has been with the Redskins for a few seasons now, entering his second with coach Gibbs. I think that certainly counts for more than 19 minutes of play.

And the only other regular season games he played in under Gibbs were last season. Last year, his winning percentage in games he started was better than Brunell's. Ramsey 3-4 (43%), Brunell 3-6 (33%).

In the final analysis, winning games is the ONLY thing that really matters.