The Bad News Thread

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Thank you for the breakdown. Let's not forget this gem as well.


IP address does not constitute a person, judge rules in copyright suit — RT USA


To be sure this ruling would apply to pretty much everything else eh?

Well, sure, if all they have is an IP address for the "NCSkins" account on the Warpath, that alone is not proof you, the individual behind the computer, made the comments. However, unlike the facts of the decision cited, we are talking about more than a mere IP address. In this case, there are specific statements and a picture of a specific work place in connection with a specific IP address.

As I understand it, the copyright ruling simply says - just b/c it was downloaded by your computer, it is not proof any specific person downloaded the pirated material ("Hey, I didn't do it, my brother uses my PC, so does my neighbor, and this weird guy down the street who I occasionally let check his e-mail. Anyone of them could have pirated it when I wasn't watching").

Essentially, proof that your IP address downloaded illegal materials, in and of itself and without any other extrinsic evidence, is legally insufficient to prove you downloaded illegal materials - i.e. they lose automatically and all you have to say is "you have failed to state a legal claim". You do not even have to allege that the computer was used by another person. Rather, if all these companies have is information saying "IP address X downloaded material", then they lose on a Motion to Dismiss as a matter of law.

However, if they have info that "IP address X downloaded material" and a statement from IP address X's owner that "Oh no, only I use that computer" or proof that IP address X's owner has the pirated materials on his device (or some other device), THEN it becomes a factual question that survives a motion to dismiss because there are more facts in play than the simple "this IP address downloaded the materials". [Again, copyright not my area - just working off some basic principles]

In this case, if someone can demonstrate that your personal computer (or your work computer) was used, the statements and photo are pretty damn specific and, in conjunction with an IP address identifiable to you or a computer you regularly use, it would at least raise a factual question as to whether or not you were the one who made the statements. Once past the motion to dismiss, they could subpoena the hard drives from the IP addresses used, certainly they would (I would) subpoena files from your work relating to your internet usage, depose coworkers, look up every post by "NCSkins" to see if it gave any information identifiable to you. Further, if you post from work (or during work hours), it could, possibly, result in a sanction from your employer - particularly if they get subpoenas for your work comps hard drive or Public Information Act Requests about your computer usage.

Again, as I said, it would take a really, really motivated plaintiff to choose to do all those things b/c it would not be cheap to pursue. From all that you said, I doubt that the individuals in question qualify. But, the original assertion was that the photo coupled with the specific statements left you open for charges of liable. I think it very clearly does "leave you open". I suspect, however, (1) it would be too costly for the potential plaintiffs in question; (2) their desire to pursue would be significantly cooled by the knowledge that they are likely to eventually lose.

At the same time, if they are willing to exert the time and money to chase you down, they likely could force you to spend time and money defending their charges. Truthfully, had you not posted the picture and just gone with the pronouns and descriptions, I would have said "No problem". Again, even with the picture, not likely to result in anything, BUT, if they have the right kind of crazy, have money to burn, and just want to make your life sh** for a bit, well, the pictures let them do that - even if you ultimately prevail.

When it comes to posting the pictures, if it were me, I wouldn't do it and I would recommend to any client of mine not to do so. I get where you coming from, really, I do (Just look at some of my posts in the Gear Grinding thread). I just think you may have let your frustrations get the better of your judgment.

I may be misreading the cited opinion, but I don't think so. Further, this is just my two cents and is not in any way intended as legal advice - 'cause I ain't licensed in "Internet Land". An attorney in your jurisdiction could read this and say "He's full of sh**" (Certainly, saden1 questions my legal competence on a regular basis). At the same time, I would give this same two cents to a friend with whom I was sharing a beer - whether we were doing so in my home State or one with terrific beaches and cool lighthouses.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

(Certainly, saden1 questions my legal competence on a regular basis).

Case closed you moron.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

At the same time, if they are willing to exert the time and money to chase you down, they likely could force you to spend time and money defending their charges. Truthfully, had you not posted the picture and just gone with the pronouns and descriptions, I would have said "No problem". Again, even with the picture, not likely to result in anything, BUT, if they have the right kind of crazy, have money to burn, and just want to make your life sh** for a bit, well, the pictures let them do that - even if you ultimately prevail.

When it comes to posting the pictures, if it were me, I wouldn't do it and I would recommend to any client of mine not to do so. I get where you coming from, really, I do (Just look at some of my posts in the Gear Grinding thread). I just think you may have let your frustrations get the better of your judgment.

I think I simply don't give a fuck at this stage so me and my co-workers turn it into humor at this point. We know nothing is going to change as long as the primary enabler stays around. Besides, knowing the stuff I have over the people above me gives me quite a bit of leverage to not give a fuck and probably why I posted them to begin with. If I felt I had anything really to lose, I probably wouldn't have posted it. The guy in question doesn't have money, and he knows the stuff I've said is right and can be proven. When it comes down to it, you better know your opponents hand before you go all in and turn your cards up. Overall, the advice is sound and most people would do well to take heed to it. Thank you for the breakdown and the advice JR. A beer has been earned my good man. That's two I owe you now.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

back to the lesson in warpath psychology, i think we can see that bad news brings confrontation then comedy followed by logical analysis. Good news gets a round of hearty good cheers. No wonder bad news sells. More clicks here.

...and that's our media in a nutshell.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I think I simply don't give a fuck at this stage so me and my co-workers turn it into humor at this point.

My ass. You:

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

My ass. You:

You're right. I'm soooo mad.