Redskins Sign DeSean Jackson

[CRedskinsRule]

I think when you have solid starters is the time you bring in guys to see who wants to make it, you don't wait until the need is there (ie when Roberts DJax both are up for extensions in 2 to 3 years).

I said specifically that money isn't an issue either way, but the fact that you could have a guy under contract for 4 years with 1 to develop and 1 to challenge and then 2 more to play, makes a lot more sense than having a guy who hasn't developed enough in 3 years to prevent the team from bringing in a good FA (Roberts) to be the number 2 (until DJax was let go and signed).

Serious question for all those who think Hankerson especially ought to be on the roster, what more do you need to see from him for him to take Roberts place as number 3, or Garcon's place as number one? And when would he get the chance to prove it (please don't say preseason) before his contract expires next year and you need to decide what you want to do with him?

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think when you have solid starters is the time you bring in guys to see who wants to make it, you don't wait until the need is there (ie when Roberts DJax both are up for extensions in 2 to 3 years).

I said specifically that money isn't an issue either way, but the fact that you could have a guy under contract for 4 years with 1 to develop and 1 to challenge and then 2 more to play, makes a lot more sense than having a guy who hasn't developed enough in 3 years to prevent the team from bringing in a good FA (Roberts) to be the number 2 (until DJax was let go and signed).

Serious question for all those who think Hankerson especially ought to be on the roster, what more do you need to see from him for him to take Roberts place as number 3, or Garcon's place as number one? And when would he get the chance to prove it (please don't say preseason) before his contract expires next year and you need to decide what you want to do with him?

His ceiling is nothing more than a good #2; he just doesn't have what it takes to be a Garcon, and certainly not an Andre Johnson.

Explosiveness and health are the biggest things I would like to see improve. He comes off the line too slow, and then relies on physicality/size to beat DBs. Sort of on that same note, he has a hard time making defenders miss in the open field. But health is the bigger issue; he's only played in 30 of a possible 48 games. If he had stayed healthy last year, he would've put up 48 catches for 600 yards and 5 TDs. That's a serviceable #2, great #3.

Right back at you: what do you see in his game that says that he can't be a good contributor to our WR corps? What makes you think that he can't put his great measurables together and become a star? You say, "Well, if he hasn't done it yet, he probably never will." But why not?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

His ceiling is nothing more than a good #2; he just doesn't have what it takes to be a Garcon, and certainly not an Andre Johnson.

Explosiveness and health are the biggest things I would like to see improve. He comes off the line too slow, and then relies on physicality/size to beat DBs. Sort of on that same note, he has a hard time making defenders miss in the open field. But health is the bigger issue; he's only played in 30 of a possible 48 games. If he had stayed healthy last year, he would've put up 48 catches for 600 yards and 5 TDs. That's a serviceable #2, great #3.

Right back at you: what do you see in his game that says that he can't be a good contributor to our WR corps? What makes you think that he can't put his great measurables together and become a star? You say, "Well, if he hasn't done it yet, he probably never will." But why not?

It's a fair question, and my best answer is this, over the past 3 years, name a WR on our team that you want to keep, and I can name at least a play or two that makes me go wow, and makes me think he's got something there:
for an example:
Garcon - he has multiple, but the Dallas game where he snagged a pass in the middle of the field and crossed all the way for a TD
Moss - obviously he has a ton
Robinson - the Dallas TD on Thanksgiving that sparked the team
Hankerson - nothin' maybe I just block it out, but I can't think of one play, where Hank made something out of nothing. What I mainly remember is a couple plays where he had the chance, and didn't make the play, or where with just a little more maybe he makes a game changing moment, but it never happened.

We have invested 3years of coaching and for Hank, not one play stands out to me as a "That's What I'm talking about moment". And this at a time when other than Garcon and Moss, the WR spot was there for the taking. Now, what motivates him, he's not going to overtake Garcon, or DJax, very unlikely to overtake Robinson. The best you can say is that it's his contract year so he's motivated for that, but isn't that the knock on most FA mistakes (I'm looking at you Albert) that teams make.

Get new guys in, give them a year of pure training, and special teams. 2015, let them get reps in the preseason games against the opponents starting defenses. and 2 years from now, when Roberts and Garcon and Djax all will at least be thinking about money, we have young guys who are ours for two more years, thinking about being our 1, 2, or 3.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

It's a fair question, and my best answer is this, over the past 3 years, name a WR on our team that you want to keep, and I can name at least a play or two that makes me go wow, and makes me think he's got something there:
for an example:
Garcon - he has multiple, but the Dallas game where he snagged a pass in the middle of the field and crossed all the way for a TD
Moss - obviously he has a ton
Robinson - the Dallas TD on Thanksgiving that sparked the team
Hankerson - nothin' maybe I just block it out, but I can't think of one play, where Hank made something out of nothing. What I mainly remember is a couple plays where he had the chance, and didn't make the play, or where with just a little more maybe he makes a game changing moment, but it never happened.<snip>

While I don't think your reasoning is a good basis for whether or not a WR "has something there" or should or shouldn't make a roster, you're not trying hard enough. Remember Hankerson's 68 yard catch-and-run TD against St. Louis? Remember his 54 yard TD grab against triple coverage in Cleveland? And these aren't the only big plays, either...

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

While I don't think your reasoning is a good basis for whether or not a WR "has something there" or should or shouldn't make a roster, you're not trying hard enough. Remember Hankerson's 68 yard catch-and-run TD against St. Louis? Remember his 54 yard TD grab against triple coverage in Cleveland? And these aren't the only big plays, either...

Those two are the ones that stand out to me. I think the biggest issue is his health. I'm not too concerned about his speed, because Jerry Rice wasn't fast. His hands have improved. I don't see him as being a #2, ever, but I think there's reason to believe that he could easily be a #3 or #4. In this case, I can see him beating out Moss.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Those two are the ones that stand out to me. I think the biggest issue is his health. I'm not too concerned about his speed, because Jerry Rice wasn't fast. His hands have improved. I don't see him as being a #2, ever, but I think there's reason to believe that he could easily be a #3 or #4. In this case, I can see him beating out Moss.

I'm not either. 4.43 speed ain't nothin' to sneeze at.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

While I don't think your reasoning is a good basis for whether or not a WR "has something there" or should or shouldn't make a roster, you're not trying hard enough. Remember Hankerson's 68 yard catch-and-run TD against St. Louis? Remember his 54 yard TD grab against triple coverage in Cleveland? And these aren't the only big plays, either...

I really don't, and I am fully aware that I was pretty much done with him before the 2013 season, so I am pretty heavily biased at this point. Now that we have a solid 1-2-3 corps, I am mostly looking at how can we have capable replacements in place when 2016/17 rolls around. I don't see Hank or Robinson as that.

that said, I went and looked up and found this highlight clip from 2012:


watch that, and see how many times the first guy takes him down, or he goes down "easily", most catches he's open, but that's because he's not drawing major coverage. Even the two you cited
St Louis is the first one on the clip, he nearly dropped the ball and the lone defender on him, no over the top safety help, caught up to him and tripped him up
The Browns play(1:38-1:44) was probably the best on that whole video, still all the defense went for the ball, even tripped over themselves, had one been behind him, he would have been tagged down.

Watch the play at 1 minute, and instead of turning up field he goes out of bounds. 0:34 is kinda the same but much much more difficult. Could've been a real wow, but wasn't

Finally, I cite:0:27, 1:09, 1:16,1:23, 1:30, 1:34 he often crumples at first contact, and in this highlight reel I didn't see one play where he broke something out of nothing.

Look, he's a guy, he's not a scrub like DT, or unable to stay healthy like MK. I wish he had trade value, but not this draft season, and not next year when he's a UFA. Again, maybe it's worth holding onto him to get a compensatory pick next year. But that's all he is to me, a 2016 compensatory 5th or 6th round pick.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

watch that, and see how many times the first guy takes him down, or he goes down "easily", most catches he's open, but that's because he's not drawing major coverage. Even the two you cited
St Louis is the first one on the clip, he nearly dropped the ball and the lone defender on him, no over the top safety help, caught up to him and tripped him up
The Browns play(1:38-1:44) was probably the best on that whole video, still all the defense went for the ball, even tripped over themselves, had one been behind him, he would have been tagged down.

Watch the play at 1 minute, and instead of turning up field he goes out of bounds. 0:34 is kinda the same but much much more difficult. Could've been a real wow, but wasn't

Finally, I cite:0:27, 1:09, 1:16,1:23, 1:30, 1:34 he often crumples at first contact, and in this highlight reel I didn't see one play where he broke something out of nothing.

First, on the bold,

"Hank has always been one our best guys in terms of separation," said offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan. "That’s usually the first thing you look for in a receiver.

On that video, I didn't see one play where he crumpled easily or went out of bounds instead of turning up field. At the :27 mark, he's leading with his shoulder, plowing into the defender. He had no chance to elude the tackle, partially because he's not that great at eluding tacklers, partially because the tackler was right there when he turned up field, and partially because he was surrounded by Bucs. At :34, that was an amazing catch; he leaps for the ball, hauls it in with his hands, and stutter-steps backwards out of bounds. Not a WR in the league, in that situation, is going to stay in bounds and pick up YAC on that play. Don't know what you're seeing there. At 1:09, it's difficult to tell what's going on, but he's surrounded by defenders; absolutely nowhere to go. At 1:16, he maybe could've made something out of that, but it was a nice tackle. Probably your best example. At 1:23, he again plows into the defender with his shoulder, but is brought down by both defenders. If he were Victor Cruz, he gets out of that; but I already said he struggles to elude tackles at times. At 1:30, WTF, dude? How's he supposed to make something out of that one? At 1:34, yeah, he went down too soon, but he did lead with his shoulder. It's not like he just goes down at first contact.

Heck, we each have different opinions, and mine is that he's a great #3, a solid #2 when healthy, and deserves a roster spot. Yours is different, and you're entitled to that. But I really can't understand why you would cut the guy now(I know, you've already explained it, but it still doesn't make sense). Even weirder, why would you have cut the guy before last season? You would've given a WR just two seasons to prove himself? That's just...well...I mean...whatever.

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Isnt this thread about DeSean Jackson?

NFLPA to probe Jackson's release by Eagles

Yeah, it is. So from now on, I'll discuss DeSean Jackson only in this thread.