Paintrain's all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread (Version 2.0)

[NC_Skins]

@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal


Gordon issued speeding ticket

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

@KeithBritton86

So Gordon gets another speeding ticket & passenger cited for marijuana possession according to @WKYCSports - unreal


Gordon issued speeding ticket

This guy is trying his best to be kicked out of the league. He's off to a good start.

Psh, if people like Pacman Jones and Mike Vick can't get kicked out of the league, nobody will. Especially not over weed possession. Josh Gordon can toke till he chokes, but at worst he'd be indefinitely suspended.

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by scowan

I'm about to open a can of worms I know, but what native americans of TODAY have endured hardships. If they have and are its because of their own choosing. This is like the Black community continuing to blame their struggles on whites when we are 40+ years from the civil rights movement. By the way, I see a black man in the oval office. At what point do you "join" America and take advantage of the freedom to choose you own future and outcome based on your abilty and quit blaming others for your struggles. Its not a perfect world I'll give you that, but there is more opportunity to rise above your condition in this country verses any other I know, but it seems like many want to continue to put the blame on others for their "condition" instead of rising above it through hard work and effort. Ok enough soapbox for me.

Our Congress just wants to continue to find "victims" they can champion. If its not the Redskins it would be another "victim" group. Instead of bringing people together, they just want to make us all hate each other for votes. Its all very sad.

I appreciate your candor, but it does show that you don't have much insight into the complex legacy of racial issues in the US. The sad part is that most people not affected don't. I'm not white, black, or Native American - but I appreciate the history, and I've actually been to inner city neighborhoods and also to native american reservations. I won't change your mind in a message board, but I disagree on your views.

Few points:

1) Obama is as much white as he is black.

2) The financial profits for casinos on reservations are overstated (see article here. Only a few near major cities make substantial profits, and a good portion of Native Americans are still very poor and on welfare. You're essentially completely wrong.

3) Would everyone here be fine renaming the team "Rednecks", "Black Panthers" or "Jihadi's"? I think it's fair to say that a word or name can have powerful connotations to a subset of people. Redskins is such an old term, it has lost much of it's initial meaning, but let's be honest - the initial meaning was not something to be proud of..



Again, I'm actually fine keeping the name Redskins.. but I think the talk on this thread demonstrates the racial insensitivities that prove the other side's points..

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by ethat001

I appreciate your candor, but it does show that you don't have much insight into the complex legacy of racial issues in the US. The sad part is that most people not affected don't. I'm not white, black, or Native American - but I appreciate the history, and I've actually been to inner city neighborhoods and also to native american reservations. I won't change your mind in a message board, but I disagree on your views.

Few points:

1) Obama is as much white as he is black.

2) The financial profits for casinos on reservations are overstated (see article here. Only a few near major cities make substantial profits, and a good portion of Native Americans are still very poor and on welfare. You're essentially completely wrong.

3) Would everyone here be fine renaming the team "Rednecks", "Black Panthers" or "Jihadi's"? I think it's fair to say that a word or name can have powerful connotations to a subset of people. Redskins is such an old term, it has lost much of it's initial meaning, but let's be honest - the initial meaning was not something to be proud of..



Again, I'm actually fine keeping the name Redskins.. but I think the talk on this thread demonstrates the racial insensitivities that prove the other side's points..

I take it you have not had an opportunity to review Bruce's letter?

http://files.redskins.com/pdf/letter...ruce-allen.pdf

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I take it you have not had an opportunity to review Bruce's letter?

http://files.redskins.com/pdf/letter...ruce-allen.pdf

Some people have honest intentions but as the saying goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I feel others like Reid are using it to distract from other more immediate issues facing the country like in the case of Reid net neutrality, the Comcast-Time Warner merger, and the veterans affairs scandal.

Though as BA kind of pointed out with a lot of these Senators so many of them crying foul and willing to go to the mattresses to get the name changed yet for years many of them have been ignoring the more critical issues surrounding basic quality of life on reservations. Doesn't make our view right just that when someones house is on fire you don't focus on someone leaving the lights on.

Honestly if it were up to me I would have it where every Native American that has ever lived on a reservation and is at least 15 years of age be allowed to vote. If the vote comes 70% or more in favor of the team keeping their name then the team should be given a 25 year pass before another vote is held.

Not to sound crass but non-natives can be as offended as they want for Native Americans really the only thing that matters is how Native Americans as a whole feel about this issue. For me personally if more then 30% found the name offensive I would find that as reason enough to change the name. After all you can't just flat out ignore a minority view just because they don't have enough support though by the same token you can't be taken hostage by it either.

The saddest part through of this whole tragedy might be that if the Redskins can hold out past the midterm election that the issue could end up loosing significant momentum until 2016 which in the end would mean that a bunch of politicians were trying to collect votes for the midterm elections.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I take it you have not had an opportunity to review Bruce's letter?

http://files.redskins.com/pdf/letter...ruce-allen.pdf

Bruce's letter doesn't mean squat. If many members of race of people are offended by a name, then they are offended.

The name must go. In time, it will go. Dan Snyder is on the wrong side of history on this issue.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by ethat001

I appreciate your candor, but it does show that you don't have much insight into the complex legacy of racial issues in the US. The sad part is that most people not affected don't. I'm not white, black, or Native American - but I appreciate the history, and I've actually been to inner city neighborhoods and also to native american reservations. I won't change your mind in a message board, but I disagree on your views.

Few points:

1) Obama is as much white as he is black.

2) The financial profits for casinos on reservations are overstated (see article here. Only a few near major cities make substantial profits, and a good portion of Native Americans are still very poor and on welfare. You're essentially completely wrong.

3) Would everyone here be fine renaming the team "Rednecks", "Black Panthers" or "Jihadi's"? I think it's fair to say that a word or name can have powerful connotations to a subset of people. Redskins is such an old term, it has lost much of it's initial meaning, but let's be honest - the initial meaning was not something to be proud of..



Again, I'm actually fine keeping the name Redskins.. but I think the talk on this thread demonstrates the racial insensitivities that prove the other side's points..

I think that's up for considerable debate. Have not heard a compelling/definitive argument that the initial meaning was offensive.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think that's up for considerable debate. Have not heard a compelling/definitive argument that the initial meaning was offensive.

How many people actually use the word Redskins as a derogatory term? Feels like when the name comes up, people automatically think of the football team.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think that's up for considerable debate. Have not heard a compelling/definitive argument that the initial meaning was offensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

This is what I think people are referring to when it was used (if ever) in the terms to describe this .Now I know it is not the best or most reliable source but it is what most people go to for info .Thing is it is the only place I find this explanation for a negative connotation to the word .It also talks about the comparison to the word negro but I am sure that has always had a negative slant on it and personally don't think the two are the same .Unfortunately this is beginning to snowball and something will have to be done sooner or later .

[ethat001]

I think they should keep the name. But it's ironic that our town had the Bullets and Redskins. Somehow Bullets was more offensive to everyone.. It's not like we're strangers to name-change.

It took me a decade to call them the Wizards, and I still don't like it. Imagine it would be the same if the Skins changed their name.

[Dirtbag59]

I freaking knew George Preston Marshall would do something from the grave to sabotage this. Honestly the fact that Joe Gibbs became our coach back in the 80's most have been to fix some negative karmic imbalance caused by good old George Preston Marshall. Only good thing the guy ever did was allow Jack Kent Cooke a chance to buy part ownership back in 1961.

1933 news article refutes cherished tale that Redskins were named to honor Indian coach - The Washington Post

The proof is in a July 6, 1933, edition of the Hartford Courant, which Witten unearthed after the sports Web site MMQB tipped him off about it.

The edition includes a short Associated Press dispatch quoting Marshall saying: “The fact that we have in our head coach, Lone Star Dietz, an Indian, together with several Indian players, has not, as may be suspected, inspired me to select the name Redskins.”

Instead, Marshall explains, he gave up “Braves” to avoid confusion with a Boston professional baseball team of the same name. He apparently picked the Redskins name so he could keep the existing Native American logo.

Honestly this whole controversy has pulled me both ways many times. And though I hate coming across articles like the one above theres others that make me feel.....less guilty about supporting the team keeping the name.

Redskins name change not as easy as it sounds - ESPN

"I've talked to our students, our parents and our community about this and nobody finds any offense at all in it," says Tim Ames, the superintendent of Wellpinit schools. "'Redskins' is not an insult to our kids. 'Wagon burners' is an insult. 'Prairie n-----s' is an insult. Those are very upsetting to our kids. But 'Redskins' is an honorable name we wear with pride. … In fact, I'd like to see somebody come up here and try to change it."

If the above quote sounds familiar its the same one cited in BA's open letter to the senators demanding a name change.

With that said I kind of feel like the name change issue has gotten to the point where it deserves its own 2014 thread.

So anyone that wants to light that batch of fireworks with the 5 cm fuse have at you.

[mooby]

Hell hath no fury like a trending corporate hashtag on Twitter.

[Ruhskins]

I don't know why the people that are against the Redskins name are picking on one team, instead of calling for a sweeping change among all teams with Native American names. I know people feel that if they can get to the Redskins, it will be easier to deal with the other teams. But as a Redskins fan, I find it hard to think of our team name to be that offensive, when you have the the Cleveland Indians with their ridiculously racist logo/mascot.

I guess they are taking advantage of a team that has an owner who is not very popular. But I also feel that by targeted one team, they force the team and fans to go on the defensive.

[SmootSmack]

How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How many people even think of Native Americans when you say "Redskins" anyway? That's a word associated with the football team in the minds of most. Nobody thinks about the Natives, or maybe I should cares...which I guess is what's really offensive

I think of the team and potatoes. Mmmmm red skin potatoes.