Why I'm Not Gonna Panic About Our QB

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by irish

I know what he did well but what's he doing well now? He's not even close to the same player he was in 2012 (because if he was we wouldn't be having this discussion) and he did do some good things in 2013 but so far in 2014 he seems to be struggling with everything.

i think he is the same player. what happened in 2012 was a beautiful piece of coaching and scheming that constantly had RG3s first read wide open, a deadly PA bc of the read option/pistol formation and alfmo excelling at running the zone read.

until RG3 learns to see the field better, he needs to have the offense dialed down for him - i.e. only have him scan half the field on any given passing play. its unrealistic to expect him to see/read the entire field.

he is the same player as 2012 imo in terms of explosiveness/intangibles but he is being used/coached differently. but it is only preseason so who knows how he really will be used come reg season.

[scowan]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

i think he is the same player. what happened in 2012 was a beautiful piece of coaching and scheming that constantly had RG3s first read wide open, a deadly PA bc of the read option/pistol formation and alfmo excelling at running the zone read.

until RG3 learns to see the field better, he needs to have the offense dialed down for him - i.e. only have him scan half the field on any given passing play. its unrealistic to expect him to see/read the entire field.

he is the same player as 2012 imo in terms of explosiveness/intangibles but he is being used/coached differently. but it is only preseason so who knows how he really will be used come reg season.

Ok so Devil's Advocate here, we all love the 2012 RG3 because of read-option and play action and misdirection and all the things that made RG3 a "force". NOW we can't play "2012 RG3 football" because he might get hurt. So we basically have to hamstring him and make him a pocket passer so he won't get hurt, but in all honestly maybe he is not an Andy Dalton pocket passer. So then what do you do? Cousins is a pocket passer. Yes he was playing with and against the 2nds but he looks good in an Andy Dalton offense.

Here is what I think, I think we see 5-10 read options on Sunday September 7th, we see more bootlegs, we see quick screens. I hope what happens is Gruden takes a look at RG3 and asks him "tell me 10 plays you really like, and lets run those!"

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by scowan

Ok so Devil's Advocate here, we all love the 2012 RG3 because of read-option and play action and misdirection and all the things that made RG3 a "force". NOW we can't play "2012 RG3 football" because he might get hurt. So we basically have to hamstring him and make him a pocket passer so he won't get hurt, but in all honestly maybe he is not an Andy Dalton pocket passer. So then what do you do? Cousins is a pocket passer. Yes he was playing with and against the 2nds but he looks good in an Andy Dalton offense.

Here is what I think, I think we see 5-10 read options on Sunday September 7th, we see more bootlegs, we see quick screens. I hope what happens is Gruden takes a look at RG3 and asks him "tell me 10 plays you really like, and lets run those!"

So generally speaking, I'm not sure how anyone who watched Cousins play in relief against Atlanta and Seattle as a rookie or in any of his starts last years can really consider that he's a better option at QB. He's played one good game (vs. Cleveland) and two good drives (vs. Baltimore) and otherwise has been mediocre. He's Rex Grossman 2.0 at best.

While nobody has seen our new offense overall, to expect it to be a bland, straight dropback offense is as foolish as expecting it to be a 2012 RG3 centric offense. I'd expect it to be lots of movement off of the run game, playaction with drop back elements and limited read option. Against the Texans, probably no read option plays because Watt and Clowney are beasts off of the edge so don't play into the strength of them potentially hitting your QB. Against the Jags in week 2, they don't have much in terms of DL studs so we can run some read option plays and keep them on their toes.

Too many people are focused on RG3 being a perfect QB on opening day. I'm much more interested on how he will be on December 8th than September 8th.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So generally speaking, I'm not sure how anyone who watched Cousins play in relief against Atlanta and Seattle as a rookie or in any of his starts last years can really consider that he's a better option at QB. He's played one good game (vs. Cleveland) and two good drives (vs. Baltimore) and otherwise has been mediocre. He's Rex Grossman 2.0 at best.

While nobody has seen our new offense overall, to expect it to be a bland, straight dropback offense is as foolish as expecting it to be a 2012 RG3 centric offense. I'd expect it to be lots of movement off of the run game, playaction with drop back elements and limited read option. Against the Texans, probably no read option plays because Watt and Clowney are beasts off of the edge so don't play into the strength of them potentially hitting your QB. Against the Jags in week 2, they don't have much in terms of DL studs so we can run some read option plays and keep them on their toes.

Too many people are focused on RG3 being a perfect QB on opening day. I'm much more interested on how he will be on December 8th than September 8th.

And you can judge this by 4 starts? He's hit his ceiling already?? Ok.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And you can judge this by 4 starts? He's hit his ceiling already?? Ok.

It's like judging RGIII on his 20 preseason throws.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

It's like judging RGIII on his 20 preseason throws.

But that was different. 1 bad year coming off injury and 3 lackluster preseason starts mean that his career is shot.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

It's like judging RGIII on his 20 preseason throws.

True but it was not just his throws that were concerning. It was his total lack of command of the basics. None of it matters until Sept. 7th. Hopefully he comes out ready to ball.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And you can judge this by 4 starts? He's hit his ceiling already?? Ok.

It's at least as wise as questioning if we should make a change based on one drive, one quarter and one half.

There's also a reason that Cousins was a 4th round pick and he's not generated much interest around the league.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And you can judge this by 4 starts? He's hit his ceiling already?? Ok.

I know. Hilarious. Cousins will NEVER get any better, because he played poorly in 3 meaningless games at the end of a 3-13 season. Oh, and he's in his 3rd year and everyone knows NFL QBs peak in year 2.

Everyone had checked out for those last 3 games and who were his weapons besides Pierre Garcon? To think he can't be any better with another off-season under his belt and a full compliment of weapons is insane.

Not saying he's Joe Montana incarnate, but I definitely think he's capable of moving the ball against first team Defenses. Maybe he'll still be turnover prone, but who knows. He's hardly the first young QB to struggle with turnovers early in his career. Fix the turnovers, and Cousins looks like he could be a pretty good QB.

RG3 no longer looks like he'll be "elite" one day. He looks like a guy struggling with the basics.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Not saying he's Joe Montana incarnate, but I definitely think he's capable of moving the ball against first team Defenses. Maybe he'll still be turnover prone, but who knows. He's hardly the first young QB to struggle with turnovers early in his career. Fix the turnovers, and Cousins looks like he could be a pretty good QB.

RG3 no longer looks like he'll be "elite" one day. He looks like a guy struggling with the basics.

So we can judge Griffin beyond a shadow of a doubt by the 20 attempts he's had in PREseason, but Cousins can't be judged by the four regular season games he played? And we also have to ignore all of Griffin’s previous accomplishments? Seems fair.

Regardless of what the games meant at the time, the one glaring fact about Cousins game that has been true throughout his college and professional career is that he turns the ball over far too much. His interception rate was 2.65% for his college career and has swelled to almost 5% in his NFL career. It's pretty rare for a quarterback that has a history of turnovers to suddenly 'fix' the problem.

Here's a few more statistics from Cousins' 2013 season. I know some people don't acknowledge certain statistics, so take your pick.

Standard QB rating of 58.4 - 69th in the league.
Total QBR of 26.5 - 35th in the league.
DVOA of -42.6 - 45th out of the top 45 quarterbacks.
Completion % of 52.9 - 45th out of the top 45 quarterbacks.

I suppose none of these stats can stand up to the eyeball test, but what about any of this screams "effective NFL quarterback"?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

So we can judge Griffin beyond a shadow of a doubt by the 20 attempts he's had in PREseason,

Considering RGIII wasn't running the read option a lot last year, you can judge him all of last year on his pocket presence and reading defenses. Not sure why you guys keep saying 20 snaps in pre-season.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

So we can judge Griffin beyond a shadow of a doubt by the 20 attempts he's had in PREseason, but Cousins can't be judged by the four regular season games he played? And we also have to ignore all of Griffin’s previous accomplishments? Seems fair.

Regardless of what the games meant at the time, the one glaring fact about Cousins game that has been true throughout his college and professional career is that he turns the ball over far too much. His interception rate was 2.65% for his college career and has swelled to almost 5% in his NFL career. It's pretty rare for a quarterback that has a history of turnovers to suddenly 'fix' the problem.

Here's a few more statistics from Cousins' 2013 season. I know some people don't acknowledge certain statistics, so take your pick.

Standard QB rating of 58.4 - 69th in the league.
Total QBR of 26.5 - 35th in the league.
DVOA of -42.6 - 45th out of the top 45 quarterbacks.
Completion % of 52.9 - 45th out of the top 45 quarterbacks.

I suppose none of these stats can stand up to the eyeball test, but what about any of this screams "effective NFL quarterback"?

Both QB's were up and down last year. Time to move on. It's 2014.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

So we can judge Griffin beyond a shadow of a doubt by the 20 attempts he's had in PREseason, but Cousins can't be judged by the four regular season games he played? And we also have to ignore all of Griffin’s previous accomplishments? Seems fair.

Regardless of what the games meant at the time, the one glaring fact about Cousins game that has been true throughout his college and professional career is that he turns the ball over far too much. His interception rate was 2.65% for his college career and has swelled to almost 5% in his NFL career. It's pretty rare for a quarterback that has a history of turnovers to suddenly 'fix' the problem.

Here's a few more statistics from Cousins' 2013 season. I know some people don't acknowledge certain statistics, so take your pick.

Standard QB rating of 58.4 - 69th in the league.
Total QBR of 26.5 - 35th in the league.
DVOA of -42.6 - 45th out of the top 45 quarterbacks.
Completion % of 52.9 - 45th out of the top 45 quarterbacks.

I suppose none of these stats can stand up to the eyeball test, but what about any of this screams "effective NFL quarterback"?

No, they BOTH can get better. That's the point. And I have no problem with rust or growing pains, but Griffin's mistakes are mind-boggling and inexcusable even for a High School level QB - jumping in the air on passes, running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, inability to slide, missing wide open receivers right in front of his face.

I don't see how any of those issues have to do with learning a new system. But maybe it was just a really bad day for him and everything will be all better by September 7th. Let's all hope.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by scowan

Ok so Devil's Advocate here, we all love the 2012 RG3 because of read-option and play action and misdirection and all the things that made RG3 a "force". NOW we can't play "2012 RG3 football" because he might get hurt. So we basically have to hamstring him and make him a pocket passer so he won't get hurt, but in all honestly maybe he is not an Andy Dalton pocket passer. So then what do you do? Cousins is a pocket passer. Yes he was playing with and against the 2nds but he looks good in an Andy Dalton offense.

Here is what I think, I think we see 5-10 read options on Sunday September 7th, we see more bootlegs, we see quick screens. I hope what happens is Gruden takes a look at RG3 and asks him "tell me 10 plays you really like, and lets run those!"

what i bolded is what i expect to see week 1. i also think what we saw against the browns will be his MO - quick hits and on longer pass plays if the 1st read isnt there his 2nd read is a dump down/safety valve. obviously i would love it if rg3 could go through progressions like peyton or brady but he is still learning and growing and isnt there yet. but he will be one day.

[scowan]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

what i bolded is what i expect to see week 1. i also think what we saw against the browns will be his MO - quick hits and on longer pass plays if the 1st read isnt there his 2nd read is a dump down/safety valve. obviously i would love it if rg3 could go through progressions like peyton or brady but he is still learning and growing and isnt there yet. but he will be one day.

I'm thinking you could really take advantage of Clowney on some Read Option in Week 1. I don't know why I feel that way but I do. RG3 better learn how to slide this week. Can he skip a day of practice with the Redskins and go practice with the Nationals? At least pick up some winning attitude?