O line

[illdefined]

ultimately, blitzing is what really has made our offense "dink and dunk".

Brunell is much more ball conscious and ends up checking down quick or scrambling to beat the rush. I think Ramsey literally doesn't care about the rush and is just dying to throw it downfield, hence the stigma of holding it too long and the absolute laser beams he throws when they do come out.

regardless, i think it's safe to say the modern day NFL blitz is what's hardest for Joe Gibbs to deal with this time around and what ran Spurrier out of town.

How do we stop it? Gibbs already tried 'max protect' and it didn't work, is it really a personnel issue (as glanced upon in the O Line thread), is our line really not as good as we say they are? our TE's not good at blocking? i don't think Clinton Portis could block one iota better at his current size.

is a true possession receiver a possible cure? i thought Cooley was going to play that role, but he was barely in Brunell's sights in Dallas. Cooley can't run those quick inside slants anyway and our WRs are too small for it. (this was one thing Coles was very good for).

if we're going to take more shots at Moss and Patten downfield, what can we do to get the QB some time? while i appreciate the ability, Brunell's scrambling isn't what it used to be and he really shouldn't have to do it or wait until fourth quarter to wait for the defense to play lazy.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by illdefined

How do we stop it? Gibbs already tried 'max protect' and it didn't work, is it really a personnel issue (as glanced upon in the O Line thread), is our line really not as good as we say they are? our TE's not good at blocking?

I think the only true way to stop it is to make teams pay for it. I love crazy blitzing. I loved watching our guys blitz insanely last year. I'd love to watch us blitz every play this year and get 20 sacks a game but the problem with it is that a team only has to beat it 2 or 3 times and the game is over. It is a huge risk to blitz and that is why not every team just goes blitz crazy. They don't have the secondary to mitigate the risk or they don't have the personnell that can get the QB fast enough to not leave the secondary hanging. And that is how you stop the blitzing. You show teams you can beat it. You don't have to beat it a lot. Just enough to make teams think twice about it. Let's be honest if we lined and blitzed 3 guys every play we'd dominate 98% of the game but on those 3 or 4 other plays we'd get beat bad and that would be points. So beat the blitz a couple times and all of a sudden it will slow down. We seem to forget that when Turner was here we had a decent offense because they'd go donwfield on blitzes and hit a couple. Next thing you know teams weren't blitzing so much adn Davis became a running force. The checking down has got to stop or at least the checking down needs be designed well enough to get decent yardage otherwise thats exactly what they want. If they don't get a sack they'll take an incompletion or a two yard dump-off.

[STPainmaker]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think the only true way to stop it is to make teams pay for it. I love crazy blitzing. I loved watching our guys blitz insanely last year. I'd love to watch us blitz every play this year and get 20 sacks a game but the problem with it is that a team only has to beat it 2 or 3 times and the game is over. It is a huge risk to blitz and that is why not every team just goes blitz crazy. They don't have the secondary to mitigate the risk or they don't have the personnell that can get the QB fast enough to not leave the secondary hanging. And that is how you stop the blitzing. You show teams you can beat it. You don't have to beat it a lot. Just enough to make teams think twice about it. Let's be honest if we lined and blitzed 3 guys every play we'd dominate 98% of the game but on those 3 or 4 other plays we'd get beat bad and that would be points. So beat the blitz a couple times and all of a sudden it will slow down. We seem to forget that when Turner was here we had a decent offense because they'd go donwfield on blitzes and hit a couple. Next thing you know teams weren't blitzing so much adn Davis became a running force. The checking down has got to stop or at least the checking down needs be designed well enough to get decent yardage otherwise thats exactly what they want. If they don't get a sack they'll take an incompletion or a two yard dump-off.

Exactly, I think our checkdowns and blitz receiver audibles are predictable. With our speedy receivers we should be able to get away with slants on the blitz. The other thing is if a team is going to overpursue you have to have dynamic RB screens that rapidly develop to counter this. This is how NE beats the blitz, with quality slants and RB screens.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The checking down has got to stop or at least the checking down needs be designed well enough to get decent yardage otherwise thats exactly what they want. If they don't get a sack they'll take an incompletion or a two yard dump-off.

no kidding, we need to stop hitting the flats. have Cooley and Royal chip the blitzer and get upfield. keeping them in just to block doesn't slow the blitz one bit.

Samuels and Jansen aren't fast enough against the NFL's new faster LBs to properly set up those WR screens either. it just keeps the box nice and packed anyway.

the way to attack the Skins is to blitz, it's in the league newsletter. Moss and Patten just have to burn their single converage and more importantly, *Brunell has to THROW it to them*. even if they look covered, OVERTHROW it to avoid the DB and see how fast these guys really are, don't throw it low and at their knees for the comeback because you think it's "safe" !!!!!

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by illdefined

the way to attack the Skins is to blitz, it's in the league newsletter. Moss and Patten just have to burn their single converage and more importantly, *Brunell has to THROW it to them*. even if they look covered, OVERTHROW it to avoid the DB and see how fast these guys really are, don't throw it low and at their knees for the comeback because you think it's "safe" !!!!!

Oh my gosh this is what I have been saying since the middle of the first quarter against the Bears. NO SECONDARY in the has the speed to cover both Patten and Moss on flys and posts without two Safeties in ladder coverage. Hell Moss gets 5 or 6 yards of sepeartion just about any time he runs a fly one on one. Line those two midgets up on opposite sides of the field and have them run like forrest gump. The safety then has to decide which to provide ladder coverage on and the other should have one on one. THROW IT 30 yards past him and let him run under it. At least if it is too long it doesn't get picked. If they bring two safeties back to cover the flys then start dumping off to Cooley, Portis and Royal and let them get 9 or 10 YAC. I sat in the high ups at the Bears game and had a good view of the whole field. I am tellings you this would have worked. I watched Moss just run by guys every time he was running a lateral route. It was ridiculous.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Oh my gosh this is what I have been saying since the middle of the first quarter against the Bears. NO SECONDARY in the has the speed to cover both Patten and Moss on flys and posts without two Safeties in ladder coverage. Hell Moss gets 5 or 6 yards of sepeartion just about any time he runs a fly one on one. Line those two midgets up on opposite sides of the field and have them run like forrest gump. The safety then has to decide which to provide ladder coverage on and the other should have one on one. THROW IT 30 yards past him and let him run under it. At least if it is too long it doesn't get picked. If they bring two safeties back to cover the flys then start dumping off to Cooley, Portis and Royal and let them get 9 or 10 YAC. I sat in the high ups at the Bears game and had a good view of the whole field. I am tellings you this would have worked. I watched Moss just run by guys every time he was running a lateral route. It was ridiculous.

Absolutly! I would come out against Seatle and start firing downfield immediatly, 3 long passes to either sideline, but I would couple that with Cooley down the center of the field, he will beat the LB's which will leave 1 on 1 coverage for someone all of the time, and only leave 7 men in the box on the defensive side, but these things are not a QB problem or a player problem they are a scheme problem which is a Gibbs problem.

Once a team figures out they will have man to man coverage everyplay against WR's with the kind of speed we have they will have to pull back and play a more conservative pass coverage, which will open things up for Portis.

The concern I do have is this, everytime we think Gibbs is going to open things up and turn the corner with a game plan that seems pretty obvious to most of us, he goes right back into his shell and stagnates the offense, almost as if he can't wait to just play conservative.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

THROW IT 30 yards past him and let him run under it. At least if it is too long it doesn't get picked. If they bring two safeties back to cover the flys then start dumping off to Cooley, Portis and Royal and let them get 9 or 10 YAC. I sat in the high ups at the Bears game and had a good view of the whole field. I am tellings you this would have worked. I watched Moss just run by guys every time he was running a lateral route. It was ridiculous.

glad you saw it, i can't imagine CBs keeping up with those two all game. Brunell underthrows it low and outside to keep the db from getting at it but the curls and comebacks just have to stop, whether gameplanned or not. that also keeps LBs and DBs in the box for the pickoff and just cause more problems for Portis!

[illdefined]

oops i just started a Blitz thread, but this one really took off. sorry, Merge away

[MTK]

I think Patten will be ok.

Brunell underthrew him once and another time had one tipped that was headed his way.

[MTK]

Remember that Cooley's production jumped when Ramsey took over, I think it's only a matter of time before Brunell gets in sync with Cooley.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Remember that Cooley's production jumped when Ramsey took over, I think it's only a matter of time before Brunell gets in sync with Cooley.

oi, don't remind us.
speaking of, we use two TE/H-Back sets all the time. doesn't Royal line up on the other side where Lefty Brunell sees him more?

[MTK]

Cooley may have spent more time blocking on Monday due to all the blitzing, something else to keep in mind.

[FRPLG]

Yeah it is all about making teams NOT BLITZ anymore. If they bring the heat you have to beat it enough to make them stop. You simply can't block 6 or 7 guys coming at you from 7 different angles consistently or much at all really. Beat it and teams start respecting your entire offense which brings them into a more passive mode. Once there then you're talking about executing well designed plays that get multiple WR open both at the intermediate level and downfield. Until you beat it then you can forget about letting a play develop. You think teams blitz the heck out of the Colts? No they don't usualy and thats because they'd get torched. Manning might eat some turf but they'd score a lot. A lot more.

[illdefined]

we need to stop the blitz because they run-blitz in a way to attack the running lanes on their way to the QB. the result is what we saw in Dallas. things like RB draws don't work, and Gibbs doesn't seem to like the Toss (though i did see a direct snap to an RB in there..)

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by illdefined

we need to stop the blitz because they run-blitz in a way to attack the running lanes on their way to the QB. the result is what we saw in Dallas. things like RB draws don't work, and Gibbs doesn't seem to like the Toss (though i did see a direct snap to an RB in there..)

Yeah what happened to our stretch plays and the zone blocking? We seem to have reverted in the running game a little.