Jay Gruden you are our only hope

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I like Gruden. Dude doesn't smoke screen us in interviews and lets the public know what he really thinks. Does that make him a good coach? Absolutely not, but I get the feeling the guy knows what he's doing. But I also feel like he's trying to metaphorically make a six million dollar man out of a trash can and two Popsicle sticks.

Ergo, he's not working with much. Outside of the usual players we know and love and constantly name (Kerrigan, Alfmo, T. Williams, DJax, Garcon, Breeland etc) what else do we really have? Players are constantly injured, we have a bunch of awful and/or inconsistent and/or constantly injured and/or players just taking up roster space on the team (Polumbus, Orakpo, Reed, Paulsen, Hankerson, Chester, Neild even though I liked him, Biggers, Porter... you get the idea) and somehow we still have almost NO depth at any position.

Long story short, this better not be a 1 and done year for Gruden.

The Redskins were not Jay's first choice and he had serious reservations about taking the job. But there are only so many NFL Head Coach openings available each year and the opportunity is ultimately too much to pass up.

My point though, is that Jay-unlike many others-had intimate knowledge of the situation here even before he interviewed. So almost none of this should come as a surprise. The one surprise to him, the one major surprise, is that he really thought Griffin was further along than he actually is. Even though his own brother told him he wasn't

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Redskins were not Jay's first choice and he had serious reservations about taking the job. But there are only so many NFL Head Coach openings available each year and the opportunity is ultimately too much to pass up.

My point though, is that Jay-unlike many others-had intimate knowledge of the situation here even before he interviewed. So almost none of this should come as a surprise. The one surprise to him, the one major surprise, is that he really thought Griffin was further along than he actually is. Even though his own brother told him he wasn't

I wonder if he's regretting the decision now.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I wonder if he's regretting the decision now.

Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?

Do you think there's buyers remorse on Snyder's end, if not Allen's? Jay seems like Zorn.2, totally over his head in terms of leadership ability and knowledge, I would think Snyder is have déjà vu nightmares.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Do you think there's buyers remorse on Snyder's end, if not Allen's? Jay seems like Zorn.2, totally over his head in terms of leadership ability and knowledge, I would think Snyder is have déjà vu nightmares.

I don't. Not yet at least.

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't. Not yet at least.

That is good news and speaks well of Snyder and Allen. I don't know what to think of Allen as GM though.

Seems like you have more inside knowledge than anyone here, did you know if Snyder had high expectations for this season?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

That is good news and speaks well of Snyder and Allen. I don't know what to think of Allen as GM though.

Seems like you have more inside knowledge than anyone here, did you know if Snyder had high expectations for this season?

I mean, he always does

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Do you think there's buyers remorse on Snyder's end, if not Allen's? Jay seems like Zorn.2, totally over his head in terms of leadership ability and knowledge, I would think Snyder is have déjà vu nightmares.

On what are you basing the conclusion that he is in over his head in terms of leadership and knowledge?

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

On what are you basing the conclusion that he is in over his head in terms of leadership and knowledge?

Well this is oversimplified but I look at knowledge based on how a coaches group performs. Gruden's offense underperformed every year in cincy relative to the talent. He had a ton to work with there in a superior oline they heavily invested in, arguably the best WR in football and great supporting cast around them. His group never finished in the top third of the league in points. His playoff performance is really lousy, playcalling lost cincy the playoffs last year. Giving up on the run going into the 2nd half of the game with a lead. Heard lots of football guys criticize Gruden after that. Now his group here is ranked about 26th in points.

So I hope we didn't recruit Jay for his x's anc o's. The other factor is leadership and he's failed worse there. If the supporting cast around RG was playing well Jay might have a case, but the whole offense looks unprepared and undisciplined. And now the drama, which he's in neck deep. If Jay was a leader the players would ball regardless of the QB. That's what well coached teams do. They also come out sharp after a bye.

Just as a comparison, look at the Cards. No stability at QB, injury ridden roster on both sides of the ball, very similar overall talent to what Grudens working with. I mean Larry Foote, at vet min I'm pretty sure, is playing the best of his career. Superb coaching. 9-1.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Well this is oversimplified but I look at knowledge based on how a coaches group performs. Gruden's offense underperformed every year in cincy relative to the talent. He had a ton to work with there in a superior oline they heavily invested in, arguably the best WR in football and great supporting cast around them. His group never finished in the top third of the league in points. His playoff performance is really lousy, playcalling lost cincy the playoffs last year. Giving up on the run going into the 2nd half of the game with a lead. Heard lots of football guys criticize Gruden after that. Now his group here is ranked about 26th in points.

So I hope we didn't recruit Jay for his x's anc o's. The other factor is leadership and he's failed worse there. If the supporting cast around RG was playing well Jay might have a case, but the whole offense looks unprepared and undisciplined. And now the drama, which he's in neck deep. If Jay was a leader the players would ball regardless of the QB. That's what well coached teams do. They also come out sharp after a bye.

Just as a comparison, look at the Cards. No stability at QB, injury ridden roster on both sides of the ball, very similar overall talent to what Grudens working with. I mean Larry Foote, at vet min I'm pretty sure, is playing the best of his career. Superb coaching. 9-1.

Playcalling performance? Last 5 Cincy home games of 2013 they scored 49, 41, 41, 42 34. They scored 10 points in the home playoff game against San Diego.

Gruden's offense knew how to put up points. They played a bad game with Dalton having THREE turnovers. Going 17 for 34 and passing for 170.

I heard a lot of "football guys" criticize Andy Dalton for turning into a turnover machine when the pressure is on.

A "lot of football guys" always criticize everything when you lose. Football is situational. Having some vague criticism of abandoning the run without more is just kind of silly.

San Diego's defense was balling during that game too. They sacked Dalton 6 times behind that elite offensive line. I'm sure you have the game film and Jay was calling 7 step drop after 7 step drop though

I'm not a "football guy" but I know when there is a film breakdown with video showing a play where every single receiver on the field is wide freakin open (against Tampa Bay) and our QB can't hit any of them, then the x's and o's might not be the problem bro. Beyond that single play, there was play after play where the film showed open receivers.

When our receivers are getting open on the plays the coaches are calling and Alfmo is running for nearly 100 yards it isn't x's and o's.

But if he were to turn into Vince Lombardi and become a leader of men then our QB could read the right side of the field and throw to one of the two or three or four or five open receivers? Silly Silly Silly.

Arizona has the 2nd ranked D in the league in points per game. Don't have a problem with big changes on that side of the ball. The one issue that our defense has not had a problem with is effort. The effort is good, the execution is terrible.

I have also heard a lot of "football guys" say that winning removes any question about leadership. Unless you have some sort of secret squirrel access to the team and are observing his interaction with players then you, are getting a mere snippet of his "leadership".

Leaders don't lead from behind a podium and that is the singular view that we as fans have of Jay.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Gruden's offense underperformed every year in cincy relative to the talent. He had a ton to work with there in a superior oline they heavily invested in, arguably the best WR in football and great supporting cast around them. His group never finished in the top third of the league in points.

Went back and looked at the rankings. Your assertion is just flat out wrong.

Gruden's offenses while in Cincy ranked as follows in points per game stat:

2011 20th
2012 12th
2013 6th

He showed steady improvement every year he was there. I would love to have that kind of trend on either side of the ball.

Do you think if we heavily invested in the same positions he could duplicate his performance in Cincy?

I think so. Instead of blowing everything up it may be smart to do as you suggest and invest heavily in the same positions. We have the same number of draft picks and the same salary cap as Cincy had. (We do now anyways.)

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?

I can't say for sure honestly. I haven't viewed any of his press conferences, the most news I get about him is from here and from video snippets I see here and there. He seems frustrated definitely, I know it's usually aimed at RG3 but I'm not sure if it's RG3, the players or the entire organization from top to bottom that is the core cause of the frustration. Like I said, I like the guy a lot, I hope he doesn't quit on us or that Snyder doesn't quit on him but by the way it seems to be going, this isn't going to end amicably whenever it does end.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I can't say for sure honestly. I haven't viewed any of his press conferences, the most news I get about him is from here and from video snippets I see here and there. He seems frustrated definitely, I know it's usually aimed at RG3 but I'm not sure if it's RG3, the players or the entire organization from top to bottom that is the core cause of the frustration. Like I said, I like the guy a lot, I hope he doesn't quit on us or that Snyder doesn't quit on him but by the way it seems to be going, this isn't going to end amicably whenever it does end.

FWIW I think Jay is frustrated with a few peeps.....but not all or so it appears to me. Busting Roberts chops.....I hope is an attempt to break him off the Superstar mentality and rebuild him (much like the Marine Corps is famous for) in the offseason. Teach how to be a successful QB that he is capable of being. The kid is just to talented and smart to hit the Jeff George road....

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Hog1

FWIW I think Jay is frustrated with a few peeps.....but not all or so it appears to me. Busting Roberts chops.....I hope is an attempt to break him off the Superstar mentality and rebuild him (much like the Marine Corps is famous for) in the offseason. Teach how to be a successful QB that he is capable of being. The kid is just to talented and smart to hit the Jeff George road....

I disagree. He's not talented, or doesn't have a top skill set to be a great QB.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Kind of get the sense he is, don't you?

Solely based on the fact of the QB situation? If he had knowledge of the other stuff...? Jay seems tough, hope he wouldn't let this affect him. Bottom line, half the league seems to have questions at qb, even teams destined for the playoffs; this situation isn't all that different somewhere else is my point.