RG3 and Gruden?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

We are beating Philly Sunday.

Sadly on Saturday when we play them, the Skins will be prepping for Sunday's game

[Bucket]

People don't seem to understand that bootlegs, roll-outs and moving the pocket only works if the run game is working. Our run game this year has struggled and that's mainly due to our TE's. We have not one TE on the roster that is solid all around.

People see Paulsen in the game and they stack the box because he can't out run anyone. If it's Jordan or Paul they just beat them to the edge and there is no seal for the zone read.

Which is why I'm hoping we invest in more traditional style running like the Seahawks do and get some more powerful lineman. Right now we have a mix of both and it's not working out. We have no identity.

If we move the pocket and have the lineman shift one way or another, it cuts the field in half and good defenses that are fast will just take advantage of that.

Robert needs to learn to throw from the pocket to be a consistent, and successful offense. Period.

[Rotten1980]

Originally Posted by Bucket

People don't seem to understand that bootlegs, roll-outs and moving the pocket only works if the run game is working. Our run game this year has struggled and that's mainly due to our TE's. We have not one TE on the roster that is solid all around.

People see Paulsen in the game and they stack the box because he can't out run anyone. If it's Jordan or Paul they just beat them to the edge and there is no seal for the zone read.

Which is why I'm hoping we invest in more traditional style running like the Seahawks do and get some more powerful lineman. Right now we have a mix of both and it's not working out. We have no identity.

If we move the pocket and have the lineman shift one way or another, it cuts the field in half and good defenses that are fast will just take advantage of that.

Robert needs to learn to throw from the pocket to be a consistent, and successful offense. Period.

Same TE's last year and we had the 6th best running game, even with RG all gimped up.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Same TE's last year and we had the 6th best running game, even with RG all gimped up.

What then good sir is your explanation?

I'm looking forward to some in depth analysis. I know your not gonna just say "cause Jay Gruden is the HC."

I agree with the original post that TE play is a huge factor in the run game this year.

Im sure there are other factors but seeing Paul and Reed being folded like pieces of paper and then their assignment making the tackle or disrupting the play stand out to my untrained eye.

Reed and Paul haven't blocked anybody all year. They are soft and don't block the backside or the front side well at all.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Rotten1980

Same TE's last year and we had the 6th best running game, even with RG all gimped up.

Yes and Jordan didn't play most of the year. Paulsen is a good blocker but lacks the receiving ability. Which is why we had no explosive plays from that position. It goes hand in hand.

Also to note. We had Polumbus who excels in the run game but is horrible in pass protection.

I shouldn't have to explain these things to vivid skin fans I feel

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Bucket

People don't seem to understand that bootlegs, roll-outs and moving the pocket only works if the run game is working. Our run game this year has struggled and that's mainly due to our TE's. We have not one TE on the roster that is solid all around.

People see Paulsen in the game and they stack the box because he can't out run anyone. If it's Jordan or Paul they just beat them to the edge and there is no seal for the zone read.

Which is why I'm hoping we invest in more traditional style running like the Seahawks do and get some more powerful lineman. Right now we have a mix of both and it's not working out. We have no identity.

If we move the pocket and have the lineman shift one way or another, it cuts the field in half and good defenses that are fast will just take advantage of that.

Robert needs to learn to throw from the pocket to be a consistent, and successful offense. Period.

I love Jordan Reed and Niles Paul. They do add extra weapons for the quarterback. But honestly, Paulsen is a guy that we need to keep around. He's the best blocking tight end on the team that I've seen.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I love Jordan Reed and Niles Paul. They do add extra weapons for the quarterback. But honestly, Paulsen is a guy that we need to keep around. He's the best blocking tight end on the team that I've seen.

paulsen has been missing a ton of blocks and assignments this year though .. im thinking we move on from paulsen if there is a cheaper equivalent.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

People don't seem to understand that bootlegs, roll-outs and moving the pocket only works if the run game is working. Our run game this year has struggled and that's mainly due to our TE's. We have not one TE on the roster that is solid all around.

People see Paulsen in the game and they stack the box because he can't out run anyone. If it's Jordan or Paul they just beat them to the edge and there is no seal for the zone read.

Which is why I'm hoping we invest in more traditional style running like the Seahawks do and get some more powerful lineman. Right now we have a mix of both and it's not working out. We have no identity.

If we move the pocket and have the lineman shift one way or another, it cuts the field in half and good defenses that are fast will just take advantage of that.

Robert needs to learn to throw from the pocket to be a consistent, and successful offense. Period.

Maybe, but he isn't that today

Right now we need to design the offense to his strengths and in the offseason work on his weaknesses.


Under Gibbs our teams were great at covering for the weaknesses of our QB's (Apart from maybe Theismann, none of our QB's under Gibbs were exactly superstars)

I don't see Gruden having the ability to do that

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Maybe, but he isn't that today

Right now we need to design the offense to his strengths and in the offseason work on his weaknesses.


Under Gibbs our teams were great at covering for the weaknesses of our QB's (Apart from maybe Theismann, none of our QB's under Gibbs were exactly superstars)

I don't see Gruden having the ability to do that

That's what people don't get. The most important fundamental for a NFL QB to have is anticipation. Cousins has it, and maybe to much at times but RG3 has 0. WR's don't run WIDE open like in college. An open WR in the NFL means 1-2 yds. That's why arm strength is so important. He needs to be able to anticipate routes and throw the ball. He doesn't, and that limits playcalling and the offense. You can't run read options on 3rd and 8 or run 8 routes from PA.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

That's what people don't get. The most important fundamental for a NFL QB to have is anticipation. Cousins has it, and maybe to much at times but RG3 has 0. WR's don't run WIDE open like in college. An open WR in the NFL means 1-2 yds. That's why arm strength is so important. He needs to be able to anticipate routes and throw the ball. He doesn't, and that limits playcalling and the offense. You can't run read options on 3rd and 8 or run 8 routes from PA.

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

i think good coaches can adjust and tweek elements of their scheme around a Qbs skill set .... but with RG3, you need to totally revamp any semblance of a pro passing attack.

griffins weaknesses >>>>>> griffins strengths (at this point)

i think RG3 could be a franchise QB, but he needs to accept where he is at and really put in the mental work needed. running more wind sprints is not needed.

these discussions are really becoming circular . . .

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

Okay.. So what do you think Gruden should do?

-RG3 can't read defenses really well so no audibles at the line.

-RG3 can't anticipate route concepts. So on third downs, he can't find the open WR because what IS OPEN. Doesn't look open to RG3.

-He doesn't really have time to throw even if he did go through his 2nd-3rd reads because the offensive line is built to move the pocket.

-The pocket can't really move because we dont run the ball effectively on 1st-2nd downs because teams KNOW we can't throw the ball. So they just stack the box. Not to mention our best hands on the team is our WORSE blocker in Jordan Reed.

-You can't run Read Option on 3rd and long.

-Always in 3rd n long because of running game problems.


Bottom line is....RG3 right now is struggling to learn an offense that he can't really learn because he has no time to progress. When he does have time, he doesn't pull the trigger because he has no anticipation.

Gruden needs more than a year to get some of his players he wants in and remove a lot of the Shanahan leftovers.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Okay.. So what do you think Gruden should do?

If I knew what to do, I'd be a Football head Coach

I'm not, so its not my job to say what Gruden should do, I just know he's not done it and putting in Cousins is not the answer.

Originally Posted by over the mountain

with RG3, you need to totally revamp any semblance of a pro passing attack.

griffins weaknesses >>>>>> griffins strengths (at this point)

You won't turn RG3 into a skilled pocket passer overnight, that will take months, but you can adjust the playbook this week so that on Saturday we can compete.

Gruden gets paid millions to do the job. Its up to Gruden to redesign his playbook if need be, but make it work.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

If you look at the QB play this year, who ran the offense the best? Who hit more big plays? When was the offense the most explosive? Hands down it was when KC was in there. Now the turnovers kill the team and they lose games. But he also threw a lot of TD's and moved the team. The WR's, which is suppose to be the strength of the team, were more involved. KC needs more coaching and playing time. That's painfully obvious. Is he mentally tough enough? Can he shake the turnovers? That remains to be seen. But he's shown enough that he deserves to be given the chance to compete for the job.

Meanwhile, Griffin in his 5 games hasn't really shown anything. No progress at all. Even jello arm McCoy has AT LEAST shown something. The RG3 hype, the "he needs a special offense" talk, it's old.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

If you look at the QB play this year, who ran the offense the best? Who hit more big plays? When was the offense the most explosive? Hands down it was when KC was in there. Now the turnovers kill the team and they lose games. But he also threw a lot of TD's and moved the team. The WR's, which is suppose to be the strength of the team, were more involved. KC needs more coaching and playing time. That's painfully obvious. Is he mentally tough enough? Can he shake the turnovers? That remains to be seen. But he's shown enough that he deserves to be given the chance to compete for the job.

Meanwhile, Griffin in his 5 games hasn't really shown anything. No progress at all. Even jello arm McCoy has AT LEAST shown something. The RG3 hype, the "he needs a special offense" talk, it's old.

Cousins kills the team, that's the problem, who cares if the team moves if it turns over the ball constantly (the only team he beat was the Jaguars, any of the three of them would have beaten the Jaguars).

McCoy would be fine if he were healthy, but he's not.

That leaves Griffin