All things off season 2015.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think you are missing Russell's playmaking (most 4th qtr comebacks since he's been in the league 15), rushing yards and the effect of his rushing threat to the overall running game (jumped from 14th to 1st FBO), and the effect of the running game on the defense.(pts allowed from 7th to 1st time of possession from 28th to 5th)

So when you say 'just about anyone can have success on that team' you dismiss the difference between the pre-Russell Seattle mediocre sub-.500 team and the Russell led team that is SB champion and contender.

You are right that pocket presence doesn't win games. But boiling down Russ's impact to pocket presence ignores the jump the team made in offense, rushing, passing, time of possession and overall defense.

Ah yes... The other thing people try to jump on with Russell, 4th quarter comebacks. Problem being, one was an int. that replacement refs called a TD. For others, all you have to do is look at game stats. Multiple games where he was under 50% comp with 0 TD and multiple ints in the game.

The problem with the 4th quarter comeback stat is it doesnt reflect the rest of the team. If you have a drive where you hand the ball off 10 straight times and the RB scores a go ahead TD, does the RB get credit for a 4th quarter comeback? No... Does the OL get credit for it? No... If the QB does not throw a single pass in the 4th quarter and they enter the 4th losing and end up winning, the QB gets credited with a 4th quarter comeback and no one else does. A lot of Wilsons 4th quarter comebacks is just handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch. Which is exactly what I said earlier... They wear you down for 3 quarters and beast mode takes over in the 4th.

If Russell has a 500 or less record, does he get the credit he does now? No. Does Russell have a +500 record on a fair amount of the teams? imo, No he doesnt. Does he post the record he has without that defense? Not even close.

You are also trying to make the claim that Seattle had everything in place except Wilson when they were posting losing records. That is not even close to being true. That defense has been great for 2 or 3 seasons, not a chance they were great prior to his arrival.

Im not trying to say Russell Wilson sucks, but he is no where near elite. And thats where people are trying to put him, the elite category.

Great pocket presence and being a good runner doesnt win much. An elite defense however does. Take that defense away and give them an average to below average defense, does Seattle win a SB?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Ah yes... The other thing people try to jump on with Russell, 4th quarter comebacks.

I guess you can beg and begrudge Wilson's 4th q comebacks if you want but you would not only have to parse out Wilson's but every other QBs 4th q comebacks to make a meaningful statement about Russell compares with theirs. Until you do that it is what it is Russell has the most 4th q comebacks since he was drafted.

If Russell has a 500 or less record, does he get the credit he does now?

Not my argument.

You are also trying to make the claim that Seattle had everything in place except Wilson when they were posting losing records. That is not even close to being true. That defense has been great for 2 or 3 seasons, not a chance they were great prior to his arrival.

To be clear. I am saying that Seattle's core was in place before Russell got there. Sherman, Earl, Kam etc. In my previous post I stated that Seattle was the 7th ranked defense before Russell got there. So yes, they were good before. But, everything about their offense improved dramatically upon Wilson arrival to include time possession (from 22nd to 5th iirc) and I' sure we both know TOP is huge for defense, which improved from 7th to 1st.

... Take that defense away and give them an average to below average defense, does Seattle win a SB?

That defense was good before Russell got there and they were mediocre 7-9 with a middling offense that Russell breathed life into.