Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think both RG3 and Gruden need to turn it around this year. While RG3's failures were his own doing, Jay didn't do that great of a job as a coach either.

My problem with Gruden is that he gave up too quickly on RG3 and tried to put all the blame on him. Technically he was right, but at the end of the day he's the coach of the team, and he has to be accountable with what happens with the team.

I think if things don't work out this year, both Gruden and RG3 will be gone.

No matter how bad things get this year, you have to give Gruden one more year. Firing him after two seasons would symbolize everything that has been wrong with the Redskins since Snyder bought the team.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

No matter how bad things get this year, you have to give Gruden one more year. Firing him after two seasons would symbolize everything that has been wrong with the Redskins since Snyder bought the team.

Of course it matters how bad things get. If Jay improves then the team improves then he earns the right to stay.

If Jay doesn't improve and team doesn't improve he shouldn't get another year for the sake of symbolism or perception.

FO decisions should be based on production not perception.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Of course it matters how bad things get. If Jay improves then the team improves then he earns the right to stay.



If Jay doesn't improve and team doesn't improve he shouldn't get another year for the sake of symbolism or perception.



FO decisions should be based on production not perception.

Definitely agree there needs to be some strong signs of progress. SM inherited Jay so he's got a lot to prove. Another 4 win season and he's outta here.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Definitely agree there needs to be some strong signs of progress. SM inherited Jay so he's got a lot to prove. Another 4 win season and he's outta here.

The problem with that is we are back to the same old formula of...new coach. New coach wants new players. etc...etc.....


Consistency. You can't have it rotating coaches every 2 years.

[irish]

While I agree that JG was hired as HC in part to help to develop RG3 I think the ultimate reason he was hired is to win football games. His being a success as a head coach will not be based on how RG3 plays, it will be based on if the Skins win. I have no problem at all with JG not being willing to gamble his future and the future of all the other coaches and players by allowing 1 player (who seems to only want to do thing his way) who obviously couldn't do the job to keep playing just for the sake of "development".

[That Guy]

I'm not sure you'd consider RG3 a franchise QB after the last 2 years of ineptitude. at this point it's either he starts to get his stuff figured out or he's going to be riding the bench somewhere waiting for another chance.

[MTK]

Good read

It's not just about RGIII, and Redskins' Scot McCloughan has proved it - The Washington Post

[Hog1]

Nice Read........
Still loving Scott and the New look Redskins! Can't wait for thursday and let's get to it.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Yea. How did it impact Griffin?

Playcalling:
-inefficient playcall relay method--from Jay to McVay to Griffin
-predictability/lack of disguise; giving away tendency based on formation e.g. Trips w/ TE iso=pass almost 100%, base personnel I-form is almost always a run etc
-inconsistent playcalling rhythm, didn't set things up-this could be because 2 different people (Jay/Sean) both call plays (Jay himself confirmed that both he and Sean calls plays)
-not having faith in the QB e.g. vs 49ers called 2 QB draws and a WR throwback
pass on 3rd down

Gameplan:
-not enough commitment to the run
-too much straight drop back passing
-not enough comeback/stop routes
-not enough play-action
-not enough roll-out passes
-not enough sprint/motion passes
-not getting the ball to Garcon

Coaching:
-impatience with Griffin as early as training camp
-creating/adding to an circus atmosphere with his post game rant
-not being in sync with Griffin to create a gameplan that made him comfortable
-not having a QB coach
-going with a rookie OC created a staff devoid of experience and feedback
-not giving Morgan Moses help vs 49ers when he was playing LT

I think all of the above Jay/staff related issues played a role in Griffin's struggles.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Playcalling:
-inefficient playcall relay method--from Jay to McVay to Griffin
-predictability/lack of disguise; giving away tendency based on formation e.g. Trips w/ TE iso=pass almost 100%, base personnel I-form is almost always a run etc
-inconsistent playcalling rhythm, didn't set things up-this could be because 2 different people (Jay/Sean) both call plays (Jay himself confirmed that both he and Sean calls plays)
-not having faith in the QB e.g. vs 49ers called 2 QB draws and a WR throwback
pass on 3rd down

Gameplan:
-not enough commitment to the run
-too much straight drop back passing
-not enough comeback/stop routes
-not enough play-action
-not enough roll-out passes
-not enough sprint/motion passes
-not getting the ball to Garcon

Coaching:
-impatience with Griffin as early as training camp
-creating/adding to an circus atmosphere with his post game rant
-not being in sync with Griffin to create a gameplan that made him comfortable
-not having a QB coach
-going with a rookie OC created a staff devoid of experience and feedback
-not giving Morgan Moses help vs 49ers when he was playing LT

I think all of the above Jay/staff related issues played a role in Griffin's struggles.

strong list 30. You make good points re what the staff should have done but i wouldnt want to be a HC who has a QB so limited that he needs to run 1 read play calls and even then, the QB holds the ball until the receiver is open open. i dont think you can run a legit offense w RG3. not at this stage in his career at least. 2012 was genius and lightening in a bottle imo.

last year, a lot of ppl on here and talking heads on the radio didnt understand why Gruden didnt move the pocket, get RG3 rolling to his left. i remember hearing that every time RG3 rolled to his right it was a scramble and most times when he rolled to his left he would look pass-first. ( a quick search didnt bring anything up)

the play calling system has been cited as a reason why we are late getting to the line and then running out of time if the play call requires motions, shifts etc. for a guy like RG3 and w gruden knowing he struggles reading Ds pre-snap ... you would think giving him more time at the line would be a good idea.

"We’re very close mentally to thinking alike," Gruden said Tuesday. "When we put together a game plan and you have your third down situations, you can almost call them together."

MORE SKINS: O-LINE SHUFFLES ABOUND
The coach continued: "It’s very important for us to be on the same page when we install and call plays. But we’ll both have input on game day like we do every game. Whether he calls 50 percent, I call 50 percent, he calls 80 percent or 20 doesn’t matter as long as we agree during the week."

Though only 29 years old, many view McVay as a football wunderkind. He has been in the game his whole life, and it's clear the strong relationship he has with players on the practice field. Gruden trusts him, too.

OPEN THREAD: Does Redskins play-calling system make sense? | Comcast SportsNet Washington

-----------------------------

detailed breakdown by plays. ive never seen this site before.

RG3 vs the Cowboys - 27/41, 336 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT

[30gut]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

strong list 30. You make good points re what the staff should have done but i wouldnt want to be a HC who has a QB so limited that he needs to run 1 read play calls

Is that hyperbole or do you really believe he needs '1 read play calls'? If you actually believe that then right off the bat I disagree with your assessment of Griffin. And sure IF Griffin was as limited as you believe then he shouldn't be in the league, and he sure as heck wouldn't have won rookie of the year.

i dont think you can run a legit offense w RG3. not at this stage in his career at least...

Personally I don't think Griffin can succeed with Gruden as his HC/playcaller; that is why I thought the FO should have traded Griffin while he still had some trade value. But, the question of whether or not Griffin can run a 'legit offense' I think Griffin would fit just fine in any number of offenses: Philly, Seattle, Carolina, 49ers (previous), Maimi, KC, Vikings and others given time.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Personally I don't think Griffin can succeed with Gruden as his HC/playcaller; that is why I thought the FO should have traded Griffin while he still had some trade value. But, the question of whether or not Griffin can run a 'legit offense' I think Griffin would fit just fine in any number of offenses: Philly, Seattle, Carolina, 49ers (previous), Maimi, KC, Vikings and others given time.

"Given time" is the key. I don't think he could run any of those offenses tomorrow with any degree of success. How much time is reasonable at this point. Further, in each of those offenses, other than Seattle and SF - which have / had dominant defenses and run games, the QB must still drop back, make & be patient with his reads, get his timing right, and feel pressure. RGIII simply does not and has not ever demonstrated consistent ability in any of those phases. His only success has come in a limited offense where he was generally required to make one or two reads.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

"Given time" is the key. I don't think he could run any of those offenses tomorrow with any degree of success. How much time is reasonable at this point?

Not to mention that all of those offenses already have QB's who performed better than RGIII did last season.

Which NFL team might actually pick him up and start him? I ask that question because Robert isn't going to get any better by sitting on the bench. Unless someone can think of a team that is dying to have him as their starter, he must succeed here.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Playcalling:
-inefficient playcall relay method--from Jay to McVay to Griffin
-predictability/lack of disguise; giving away tendency based on formation e.g. Trips w/ TE iso=pass almost 100%, base personnel I-form is almost always a run etc
-inconsistent playcalling rhythm, didn't set things up-this could be because 2 different people (Jay/Sean) both call plays (Jay himself confirmed that both he and Sean calls plays)
-not having faith in the QB e.g. vs 49ers called 2 QB draws and a WR throwback
pass on 3rd down

Gameplan:
-not enough commitment to the run
-too much straight drop back passing
-not enough comeback/stop routes
-not enough play-action
-not enough roll-out passes
-not enough sprint/motion passes
-not getting the ball to Garcon

Coaching:
-impatience with Griffin as early as training camp
-creating/adding to an circus atmosphere with his post game rant
-not being in sync with Griffin to create a gameplan that made him comfortable
-not having a QB coach
-going with a rookie OC created a staff devoid of experience and feedback
-not giving Morgan Moses help vs 49ers when he was playing LT

I think all of the above Jay/staff related issues played a role in Griffin's struggles.

This is very good. The not having a QB coach combined with McVay's first coordinator job meant nobody was teaching Griffin appropriately. That was a big mistake. If you know you have a QB that needs to transition from a spread / first-read kind of offense, it seems utterly stupid to do anything but throw all the teaching and training resources you can at him.

Hopefully Cavanaugh helps.

But 30 your other points about the shortcomings in the gameplan are apt, there just wasn't enough movement of the QB (meaning shift the pocket or launch point, not look to run). It showed that Jay and the coaches did not get up to speed fast enough to learn what Robert could and could not do. They learned the hard way, which doesn't point to a coach who's ahead of the curve. A coach who was ahead of the curve would have seen that in training camp and developed a plan.

I still think Jay is a mediocre head coach at very best.

[JoeRedskin]

I agree that Jay contributed to the lack of RGIII's development last year and I think the breakdown 30gut provided is not far off the mark.

I am hopeful that many of the problems 30gut sets out, specifically play calling and game planning, were caused by first time Head Coachitis and were the direct result of two things:

(1) Trying to do too much and delegating too little. Hopefully, with the addition of a QB coach, and a season under their belt, the 1st time HC and 1st time OC will have a better understanding of the time constraints and their relative roles and will delegate appropriately. Too much of the time last year, I think we had two QB coaches and no HC or OC. As a result, I think the play-calling suffered b/c, as people do when over-stretched, the play-callers fell into things easy and comfortable to them.

(2) Trying to force a round peg into a square hole. RGIII is not, and likely will never be, a straight drop back passer. Further, to try and turn him into one is a waste of much of his athletic ability - sprint options, roll-outs, moving pocket, play action, etc. all work to his strengths (limiting options, creating time to see the field). A game-plan that fails to adapt and accommodate the talent available is doomed to failure or, at the very least, under-achieve.

In terms of (2), however, I can see the other side to the argument: on one hand, play to a QB's strengths v. on the other, forcing a QB to develop the necessary tools for the long term (i.e., this is what we need a QB to do so we are going to go cold turkey on everything else). If not forced by the game plan, the QB will not do the work necessary to adjust his skill set. Sure, maybe more roll-outs etc. would have helped in the short term, but, ultimately, RGIII has to develop the skills necessary to perform in an offense that can challenge the entire field on any given play. If he only succeeds by the team limiting its options and playing half a field, he simply won't, ever, develop the skills he needs to become a guy who can drop back - when necessary - and run a traditional offense.

As to the coaching, and to me, it essentially boils down to JG's open criticism of RGIII. Either this was (1) simply naiveté by a first year coach not recognizing the circus atmosphere his words would create which 30gut, rightfully, condemns; (2) a deeper obliviousness with the same result as (1) but less correctable; or (3) a much needed smack-down of a young, over-confident QB who thought he was better than he was (As much as I love me some RGIII, he often seems to over-state the importance something he has done right - the equivalent of "Aren't I amazing? I did what other QB's do all the time"). Hopefully, JG's public honesty was the result of (1) or (3), got through to RGIII, AND JG realizes this type of candor is not something that can continue w/out ultimately being detrimental to the entire team.

Let's see how this relationship develops this year. It is critical for both. Each needs to show individual development as a QB and HC and both need to show they can adapt to the other. RGIII needs to show he can improve within the system provided and JG needs to show he can adapt his system to the talent on hand. While I believe it likely that RGIII's seat is hotter, my bet on both of them being here next year is around 50%.