Cousins to start 2015 Season

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Film Breakdown: Kirk Cousins' 9 Interceptions in 2014

they have the video breakdown of every pic.

Quarter Breakdown for Cousins 9 picks:

1st Quarter 0
2nd Quarter 1
3rd Quarter 3
4th Quarter 5

I wish they told you the score bc i remember most of his picks came when we were trailing by 2 scores.
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We should probably expect some growing pains, but I'm not ready to conclude that Kirk Cousins has hit his ceiling after only starting 9 games. Yes, he threw a lot of picks last year, but still threw more TDs and if he improves over time, he'll be just like a vast majority of guys who have played the position - struggles early, but better with experience. I'll play the odds and say we see a much improved version of KC as the season goes on. If not, it's back to the drawing board after the season.

[calia]

Cousins needs a chance -- and not just a handful of games -- to show whether he can be a franchise QB, and only time will tell. Here's a look at stats for some other noteworthy QBs their first season starting, and then compared to what Cousins did last season:

Payton Manning (1998): 26 TD, 28 INT, 3739 YRD
Drew Brees (2002): 17 TD, 16 INT, 3284 YRD
Andrew Luck (2012): 23 TD, 18 INT, 4374 YRD
Tom Brady (2001): 18 TD, 12 INT, 2843 YRD

Kirk Cousins (2014, 6 starts*): 10 TD, 9 INT, 1710 YRD
* given how early he entered the JAX game, I have assumed that a start
Kirk Cousins (if adjusted same #s for 16 games): 26.7 TD, 24 INT, 4560 YRD

More TDs than any of the above QBs, although also more INTs than everyone except Payton Manning. And more yards than everyone too.

To be clear, I am not saying Kirk will be on par with any of these folks -- who the heck knows if that is possible? Again, only time will tell. But one cannot look at the numbers and conclude he's just a stop gap to a real franchise QB either. Let's not forget, Brady and Luck (at least) had better starting casts around them than Cousins had here last year too.

Let's give the guy a chance -- even with the inevitable growing pains. What do we have to lose at this point?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by calia

Cousins needs a chance -- and not just a handful of games -- to show whether he can be a franchise QB, and only time will tell.....
Let's give the guy a chance -- even with the inevitable growing pains. What do we have to lose at this point?

Whether Kirk 'needs' a chance is up for debate.

And just for the sake of accuracy this upcoming chance is Kirk's 3rd. The 1st was with Mike Shanahan in 2013. The 2nd was last year when Griffin was hurt.

[calia]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Whether Kirk 'needs' a chance is up for debate.

And just for the sake of accuracy this upcoming chance is Kirk's 3rd. The 1st was with Mike Shanahan in 2013. The 2nd was last year when Griffin was hurt.

He had very little playing time in his first three years, as I am sure you'd agree. I also didn't count the initial seasons of Brees or Brady in the statistics above for the same reason.

With all due respect, for the sake of accuracy, 2012 was Cousin's 1st year, not 2013. I don't think you can count the 2013 season as a "chance" any more than 2012, since Shanahan's decision was purportedly done to protect Griffin in a lost season rather than seeing what he had in Kirk.

Again I focused on last season as the first in which there was an extended look (even though that only amounted to about 1/3 of the season).

And if you don't think Kirk needs a chance this season, what exactly do you have in mind for the QB position?

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Whether Kirk 'needs' a chance is up for debate.

And just for the sake of accuracy this upcoming chance is Kirk's 3rd. The 1st was with Mike Shanahan in 2013. The 2nd was last year when Griffin was hurt.

I don't think any reasonable person would describe 9 total starts as being a real chance.

[calia]

I think the point that several of us are making is that some of the best QBs in decades had significant INT problems early on -- Brees, Manning, Favre, to name a few. They got over it, but it took time and more starts than Cousins has had (by far). Will Cousins get over it? No one can possibly know that; only time will tell. Give the man time. It isn't as though we have any other real options at this point.

I, for one, am excited to see what the guy can do. There will undoubtedly be growing pains. But I suspect he'll have some games where he lights it up too.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

I don't think any reasonable person would describe 9 total starts as being a real chance.

Who said the NFL is reasonable?

You may not see the previous 2 stints as opportunities but had he performed better he would have been given greater opportunity.

That's how the league works. When you get your opportunity, however slight you have to capitalize.

Now Kirk has a 3rd shot to prove he's a starting QB in the NFL.

[calia]

Not sure if I can agree with the above comment. By that logic, a number of sure HOF QBs would never have gotten off the ground -- Favre, Brees, and Manning had particularly bumpy starts to their careers.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by calia

Not sure if I can agree with the above comment. By that logic, a number of sure HOF QBs would never have gotten off the ground -- Favre, Brees, and Manning had particularly bumpy starts to their careers.

You gotta be more specific about what you disagree with. Because what you are saying above doesn't follow from my post.

[RedskinJake]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Who said the NFL is reasonable?

You may not see the previous 2 stints as opportunities but had he performed better he would have been given greater opportunity.

That's how the league works. When you get your opportunity, however slight you have to capitalize.

Now Kirk has a 3rd shot to prove he's a starting QB in the NFL.

He is being given greater opportunity. I don't think anyone here believes that his previous starts were honest opportunities. He was forced to prove to everyone that he was the love child of Joe Montana and Sammy Baugh. I think most realize that he was put into a tough situation even if he did struggle. Still, he's handled it well and progressed. Had RG3 done either of those things, he'd be playing. Kirk has made every effort to learn to play the position at the pro level. Time will tell where he ranks. Yesterday was yesterday and today is today. There's no reason he can't be a franchise QB and he can still do that if he throws 20 picks a year. I want to see him lower his interception ratio to 3% but that's not the metric I'm going to judge him by.

Alex Smith threw 6 INTS last year, Drew Brees threw 17..

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by RedskinJake

Alex Smith threw 6 INTS last year, Drew Brees threw 17..

I wonder what throwing a pick represents on average in cancelling out yardage.
Pretty sure 2 picks and 300 yards passing gives you a better chance to win than 150 yards and no picks. I do seem to recall Cousins throwing a few picks last year when the game was probably lost anyway, so they did no real damage.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by RedskinJake

He is being given greater opportunity. I don't think anyone here believes that his previous starts were honest opportunities. He was forced to prove to everyone that he was the love child of Joe Montana and Sammy Baugh. I think most realize that he was put into a tough situation even if he did struggle. Still, he's handled it well and progressed.

I don't understand why people are so defensive about Kirk previous chances? There is no need to rationalize and explain. No one is saying that his previous chances were the best opportunities, only that Kirk did have them.

...There's no reason he can't be a franchise QB and he can still do that if he throws 20 picks a year. I want to see him lower his interception ratio to 3% but that's not the metric I'm going to judge him by.

Time will answer the Kirk question.

And to your bolded statement above sure, Kirk could be one of those QBs that throws a bunch of picks but still remains a solid starter. But in your scenario he's gonna have to balance those picks with stellar production in yards and TDs. Basically he's gonna have to be Drew Brees to throw as many picks as you say and still be solid starter.

I think an easier path to success for Kirk is to lower the INT%, improve on 3rd downs and drop backs lasting longer then 2.5s.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by calia

Cousins needs a chance -- and not just a handful of games -- to show whether he can be a franchise QB, and only time will tell. Here's a look at stats for some other noteworthy QBs their first season starting, and then compared to what Cousins did last season:

Payton Manning (1998): 26 TD, 28 INT, 3739 YRD
Drew Brees (2002): 17 TD, 16 INT, 3284 YRD
Andrew Luck (2012): 23 TD, 18 INT, 4374 YRD
Tom Brady (2001): 18 TD, 12 INT, 2843 YRD

Kirk Cousins (2014, 6 starts*): 10 TD, 9 INT, 1710 YRD
* given how early he entered the JAX game, I have assumed that a start
Kirk Cousins (if adjusted same #s for 16 games): 26.7 TD, 24 INT, 4560 YRD

More TDs than any of the above QBs, although also more INTs than everyone except Payton Manning. And more yards than everyone too.

To be clear, I am not saying Kirk will be on par with any of these folks -- who the heck knows if that is possible? Again, only time will tell. But one cannot look at the numbers and conclude he's just a stop gap to a real franchise QB either. Let's not forget, Brady and Luck (at least) had better starting casts around them than Cousins had here last year too.

Let's give the guy a chance -- even with the inevitable growing pains. What do we have to lose at this point?

And Brees followed up 17TDs and 16INTs with 11TDs and 15INTs the next season. THEN, the the year after that he had 27TDs and only 7INTs. By that time, the Chargers had already decided to move on and had drafted Philip Rivers. Cousins may never solve the turnover/confidence problem, but it's way too early to close the book on him. After a full season this year, we should know exactly what we have in him and whether or not it's back to the drawing board as far as the QB position goes.