Cousins to start 2015 Season

[That Guy]

shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one the could run and wanted to run. then he got hurt and threw a fit about not wanting to run read-option, and well, look at 2013. not so great, so that's kind of a bad argument. also notice how many teams are lining up to join in the great RG3 sweepstakes. that should be pretty telling.

also, shanahan is probably a better coach that JG, but he couldn't make it work, so advising JG to follow the same plan that got shanahan fired seems like a really bad idea.

[30gut]

"Revisionist History"

Originally Posted by That Guy

shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one the could run and wanted to run.

Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in 2013.

Then there was Griffin, who finally resembled the RGIII of last year when he scrambled to make something out of nothing with a 21-yard run deep into the opponent's territory with the score tied in the fourth quarter.

''It's not that I want to run more, I just feel like that's what we need,'' Griffin said. ''If that's what it takes to win games, then I'm willing to do that.''

That's from Week 3 Lions game 2013, where Griffin had 6 rushes for 37 yards. I've posted the highlights from 2013 before, he can and did run read-option.

...also, shanahan is probably a better coach that JG, but he couldn't make it work, so advising JG to follow the same plan that got shanahan fired seems like a really bad idea.

Lets not pretend that Griffin got Shanahan fired. And lets also be clear the offense did work. Even in 2013 the offense was the best part of the team.

However; Mike didn't make anything else work. His efforts as a GM were palrty at best: W/L record, league worst defense, historically bad special teams. Then he took a flamethrower to everything.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in 2013.

...

Lets not pretend that Griffin got Shanahan fired. And lets also be clear the offense did work. Even in 2013 the offense was the best part of the team.

However; Mike didn't make anything else work. His efforts as a GM were palrty at best: W/L record, league worst defense, historically bad special teams. Then he took a flamethrower to everything.

As we have ALL said, there was plenty of blame to go around. Did RGIII "get Shanahan fired"? No. The complete breakdown of the team got him fired. At the end, nothing was working. Did RGIII contribute to the problem? Yes. Did his play on the field regress? Yes. Did he and his father contribute to the daily drama and general circus atmosphere of 2013? Yes. Did Dan Snyder contribute to the general sh** show that was the end of the 2013 season? Yes.

Shanahan sucked and was knifing as many folks in the back as he could - or at least that's how it seemed to me. RGIII, however, did not play well in 2013. He demonstrated he was not a drop back passer and had a loonggg way to go in that area. He ran the read option, but not with anywhere near the effectiveness of the previous year. And, when it failed or when down and distance removed it from the plays, he lacked the ability to move the team.

I don't have the stats and I am not going back to look them up. Shanahan is gone. RGIII has regressed. DS/BA contributed to the circus atmosphere which created distractions on the field. In 2014, DS/BA brought in a coach who had never worked with a running QB and who tried to fit a square peg in a round hole. It didn't work and the coach was stuck with a player he didn't want to play and the circus continued.

SM got hired and said - my way or the highway. RGIII sits. Coach gets to sink or swim with his guy. At the end of this year, JG & KC are either here together with RGIII gone or everybody is out.

Not sure why we are STILL talking Shanny. He contributed to RGIII's regression, but the man has his own faults to own up to.

Nice article from Keim from back in February that lays it all out nicely:

Mike Shanahan on RG III, Dan Snyder - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

But, just a guess here, it's not healthy for an owner who is not a football man to be telling a coach how to use a player. As Shanahan said he told Snyder, after meeting with Griffin and hearing some buzzwords that aroused suspicion, “I told Dan, ‘Hey Dan, I just had a conversation with Robert and I think this conversation is coming from you more so than it is Robert. If that's the case, there's no way, unless your owner, your GM, your head coach and your quarterback are all on the same page you win in the National Football League.” I know Shanahan was concerned about the relationship between Griffin and Snyder before the 2013 season.

Shanahan said Griffin talked to him after his rookie season and let him know what plays he thought were “acceptable and unacceptable.” Shanahan said the words sounded like something Snyder would say. I don't blame Griffin for voicing an opinion, but it also speaks to someone reaching a point in his own mind that he had not hit in reality. But you can only do so if you're enabled. That's why, in some ways (definitely not all), the last guy I blame for this is Griffin. And I don't blame him for wanting to limit the shots. The problem was, he took a lot of them in the pocket or when scrambling – and more than a few of those scrambles could have been avoided by throwing to open receivers.

Shanny, 2013, sucked. He set the team back a lot. He set RGIII back a lot. RGIII, 2013, did not help himself much. RGIII, 2014, did a lot himself to hurt the team's chances on the field, with his relationship with his teammates, and to hinder his development.

He's still here. Shanny's gone. Can we move on to where Scot McCloughan is taking this team? B/c KC wasn't horrible and the team ran the ball, stopped the run pretty well, and played tough. They lost through some dumb mistakes - similar to ones in the past - but they punched Miami in the gut and that's a good thing to build off of.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

...In 2014, DS/BA brought in a coach who had never worked with a running QB and who tried to fit a square peg in a round hole. It didn't work and the coach was stuck with a player he didn't want to play and the circus continued.

Agreed.

SM got hired and said - my way or the highway. RGIII sits. Coach gets to sink or swim with his guy. At the end of this year, JG & KC are either here together with RGIII gone or everybody is out.

Or another, maybe less likely scenario: J and Kirk fail, Dan loses patience and fires J; and Griffin remains.

...Not sure why we are STILL talking Shanny.

Because That Guy brought him up here....

Originally Posted by That Guy

shanahan had.....

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

And lets also be clear the offense did work. Even in 2013 the offense was the best part of the team.

I lied ... and am suffering from insomnia ... I did look up the stats.
Offense:
Pts. Scored - 23rd in the league
Total yards - 9th
Passing yards - 16th
Rushing yards - 5th

So, yup. The offense was top 10, and Griffin had an okay rating and stat line. Not as good as 2012, but decent. (INT's up, TD's down, rushing yds/TD down).

Regardless ... that is all in the past. RGIII cannot play the offense required of him by Gruden. It was obvious last year and nothing I saw this year changes that.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I lied ... and am suffering from insomnia ... I did look up the stats.
Offense:
Pts. Scored - 23rd in the league
Total yards - 9th
Passing yards - 16th
Rushing yards - 5th

So, yup. The offense was top 10, and Griffin had an okay rating and stat line. Not as good as 2012, but decent. (INT's up, TD's down, rushing yds/TD down).

Regardless ...

Lol, regardless.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lol, regardless.

Yes. Regardless of all that crap, it's 2015 and RGIII has shown he cannot succeed in the current coach's offense. You may disagree and that's fine. I have seen what I've seen and I don't need to see no more.

I am rooting for JG to succeed in 2015 and the same for his QB of choice. It's just that simple.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 30gut

blah blah blah

quoting out of context, missing the point, apologizing for RG3... hat trick! If you think RG3 ran as well in 2013 as in 2012, that's fine, I disagree (as would many), but I'm not getting sucked in to wasting time arguing about things that don't matter.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

quoting out of context, missing the point, apologizing for RG3... hat trick! If you think RG3 ran as well in 2013 as in 2012, that's fine, I disagree (as would many), but I'm not getting sucked in to wasting time arguing about things that don't matter.

Ugh. I agree 100% about not getting sucked into one of your bait and switch arguments.
But that doesn't mean I'm gonna let untrue statements pass unquestioned.

Here is what YOU said:

Originally Posted by That Guy

shanahan had a different QB than gruden, he had one the could run and wanted to run.

Here is my response:

Griffin can still run. And to be clear Griffin did run read-option in 2013.

Notice no where is the argument being made that Griffin ran as well in 2013 as he did in 2012. I didn't make that point and you didn't either.

So now that you shifted your point to: If you think RG3 ran as well in 2013 as in 2012. Sure I agree that Griffin in 2013 wasn't as dynamic a player as he was in 2012.