Skins v Jets - Positives and Negatives

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

If, say we are 3 - 7 and Cousins hasn't improved, no one can see RG3 starting last 6 games or so? I think he might, its a weak year for qbs in the draft.

He is probably done here. It's over. I personally do not want to see him play because 1. He sucks. 2. He's fragile.

I'm hoping we get back some of our guys on offense the second half of the season. We've seen KC make a lot of big plays in the passing game. He just needs to do it. If he can't then I 'd rather see McCoy. Can't believe I'm saying I'd rather see McCoy over Griffin but it's true. Smh..

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Can't believe I'm saying I'd rather see McCoy over Griffin but it's true. Smh..

2012 Griffin, with his speed and in the Shanahan's system, was at a different level than Cousins or McCoy.

Post-2012 Griffin, slowed by injuries, trying to be a pocket passer, might be as good as Cousins, if you figure neither of them are good enough to be a decent starting QB in the NFL.

I think we had to make the move to Cousins. Our receivers were getting sick of LOS passes because Griffin couldn't get the ball downfield enough. So was Gruden.

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

2012 Griffin, with his speed and in the Shanahan's system, was at a different level than Cousins or McCoy.

Post-2012 Griffin, slowed by injuries, trying to be a pocket passer, might be as good as Cousins, if you figure neither of them are good enough to be a decent starting QB in the NFL.

I think we had to make the move to Cousins. Our receivers were getting sick of LOS passes because Griffin couldn't get the ball downfield enough. So was Gruden.

He is much worse, remember when Griffin was in (Last year, this preseason) a lot of people in here were complaining about how bad
the O-line was at pass blocking? Put the other guys in and that line doesn't look so bad, even last Sunday with all the injuries. A QB that holds the ball too long, can't feel the pressure and isn't good at side
stepping makes an O-line look worse than it is.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Post-2012 Griffin, slowed by injuries, trying to be a pocket passer, might be as good as Cousins, if you figure neither of them are good enough to be a decent starting QB in the NFL...

I really don't want to get into another Griff/Kirk sink hole.

But I see it differently. Obviously 2012 was without exaggeration phenomenal. The 1st year post 2012 was 2013 and in that year Griffin was a better QB and pocket passer then Kirk.

People forget but Kirk was actually terrible in 2013 and whereas Griffin was merely perceived as terrible despite actually being average or just a touch below. I could post the stats but people should remember.

I think we had to make the move to Cousins. Our receivers were getting sick of LOS passes because Griffin couldn't get the ball downfield enough. So was Gruden.

I think J made the decision to move on from Griffin as soon as he was hired and it wasn't forced by anything other then his on volition. People say Kirk deserves more time and maybe he does, he's already received more time in J's system then Griffin. And I'll admit that right now the team lacks weapons but the 2012 had about the same or less talent then this team right now.

But if Kirk/J get more time and still don't produce then it would make sense to move to Griffin but everyone knows that J isn't about that life.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I really don't want to get into another Griff/Kirk sink hole.

too late

Originally Posted by 30gut

But I see it differently. Obviously 2012 was without exaggeration phenomenal. The 1st year post 2012 was 2013 and in that year Griffin was a better QB and pocket passer then Kirk.

People forget but Kirk was actually terrible in 2013 and whereas Griffin was merely perceived as terrible despite actually being average or just a touch below. I could post the stats but people should remember.

I think J made the decision to move on from Griffin as soon as he was hired and it wasn't forced by anything other then his on volition. People say Kirk deserves more time and maybe he does, he's already received more time in J's system then Griffin. And I'll admit that right now the team lacks weapons but the 2012 had about the same or less talent then this team right now.

But if Kirk/J get more time and still don't produce then it would make sense to move to Griffin but everyone knows that J isn't about that life.

Just using your logic, IF KC was worse in JG's system at first, and now is better and RG3 was better at first and now is worse, then why would it make any sense to put RG3 in at any point this season.

in other words if KC has been able to improve, and RG3 has shown regression, why would you change back to RG3?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

too late



Just using your logic, IF KC was worse in JG's system at first, and now is better and RG3 was better at first and now is worse, then why would it make any sense to put RG3 in at any point this season.

in other words if KC has been able to improve, and RG3 has shown regression, why would you change back to RG3?

Just to point out, you have the years wrong. 2013 was Shanahans last year, not Grudens first year. Grudens first year was 2014. RG3 cant run Jays system and Jay wont change, so I dont see RG3 going back in there. Jay made it pretty clear from day 1 that he wanted nothing to do with RG3 so thats not even an option now. Even if we moved on from Jay at the end of the year, you cant bring RG3 back at his option year salary. He would have to be cut and resigned much cheaper, which I doubt either the Redskins or RG3 would be interested in.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

...Even if we moved on from Jay at the end of the year, you cant bring RG3 back at his option year salary. He would have to be cut and resigned much cheaper, which I doubt either the Redskins or RG3 would be interested in.

I admit we are getting waaayyy ahead of ourselves here. Straight out we are exploring a scenario that only happens IF Kirk/Jay continue to play poorly and lose games. So depending on your view of the team/current staff the scenario being discussed is anywhere from highly unlikey to highly likely.

Let say there is some crazy scenario where Kirk plays poorly enough and the team continues to lose as a result. IFKirk by all objectives measures should be benched then I believe the decision that lead to Kirk being the starter in the first place should be called into question. And IF that is the case then we're essentially back where we were in the offseason except without Kirk as an option. At the beginning of the offseason we had 2 unknown quantities at QB in this system. Except in the above scenario 1 would have played themselves out of contention.

Now the question becomes the Griffin's 16 mil option.
Unless I understand it wrong Griffin-Bruce/brass can re-work the salary/contract.
And I would bet dollars to doughnuts that Griffin would be willing to restucture that contract for a chance to stay in Washington and compete for the starting job next year.
The only way Griffin would get 16 mil would be IF he was hurt with an injury severe enough to prevent him from playing in the 2016 season.

So while I agree the 16mil is an obstacle I don't think its an obstacle that should prevent them from finding out whether Griffin can be a potential franchise QB with a coach other then Jay Gruden.

[SCRedskinsFan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I admit we are getting waaayyy ahead of ourselves here. Straight out we are exploring a scenario that only happens IF Kirk/Jay continue to play poorly and lose games. So depending on your view of the team/current staff the scenario being discussed is anywhere from highly unlikey to highly likely.

Let say there is some crazy scenario where Kirk plays poorly enough and the team continues to lose as a result. IFKirk by all objectives measures should be benched then I believe the decision that lead to Kirk being the starter in the first place should be called into question. And IF that is the case then we're essentially back where we were in the offseason except without Kirk as an option. At the beginning of the offseason we had 2 unknown quantities at QB in this system. Except in the above scenario 1 would have played themselves out of contention.

Now the question becomes the Griffin's 16 mil option.
Unless I understand it wrong Griffin-Bruce/brass can re-work the salary/contract.
And I would bet dollars to doughnuts that Griffin would be willing to restucture that contract for a chance to stay in Washington and compete for the starting job next year.
The only way Griffin would get 16 mil would be IF he was hurt with an injury severe enough to prevent him from playing in the 2016 season.

So while I agree the 16mil is an obstacle I don't think its an obstacle that should prevent them from finding out whether Griffin can be a potential franchise QB with a coach other then Jay Gruden.

A lotta big if's there...

The 16 million isn't the problem. The problem is Griffin's evident inability to play quarterback in the NFL. I don't doubt you're one of the smart football guys on the block. So exactly how do you propose Griffin should be used on the field? He has proven that he can't play the "traditional" pocket passer way beyond a doubt to most observers, what ever the reason. And we also know that the "hybrid" quarterback has broken his body over and over.

Not my opinion, professional football people have voted with their silence for months, with Griffin available for literally the proverbial ham sandwich. The consensus here certainly is that you continue to spit into the wind on this issue. The question remains why?