Who is Kirk Cousins?

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Those two look stupid in those photos. What a couple of maroons!

I'll be here all week, folks.

[NoCalHail]

From what I have seen of Cousins (stupid know-nothing fan observations of course) is that as far as throwing the ball, we have possibly seen Cousins about as good as he is going to get, (other than avoiding some of the more boneheaded throws if possible) but there are still things at the position he can improve on like recognition at the line of scrimmage, audibles at the line of scrimmage, basically the knowledge-experience end of the spectrum that requires more time playing the position.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NoCalHail

From what I have seen of Cousins (stupid know-nothing fan observations of course) is that as far as throwing the ball, we have possibly seen Cousins about as good as he is going to get, (other than avoiding some of the more boneheaded throws if possible) but there are still things at the position he can improve on like recognition at the line of scrimmage, audibles at the line of scrimmage, basically the knowledge-experience end of the spectrum that requires more time playing the position.

JR is that you?
What do you mean exactly by as good as he is going to get throwing the ball? All these other things you refer to him getting better at certainly will improve "throwing" the ball?? I remind you again to go back and look at Drew Brees when he was 30 games into his career. It was not good. He is not the only one who improved after such a short time but he is the big name.
Edit: I will say again that I do not necessarily think KC is going to be Drew Breese - I like using Breese as an example though because of the amazing turnaround his career took when he got players around him. Does that make him a "game manager who is not capable of carrying a team on his own"? No. It makes him a quarterback that got a chance to showcase his capabilities thanks to a TEAM around him.

[NoCalHail]

Originally Posted by punch it in

JR is that you?
What do you mean exactly by as good as he is going to get throwing the ball? All these other things you refer to him getting better at certainly will improve "throwing" the ball?? I remind you again to go back and look at Drew Brees when he was 30 games into his career. It was not good. He is not the only one who improved after such a short time but he is the big name.
Edit: I will say again that I do not necessarily think KC is going to be Drew Breese - I like using Breese as an example though because of the amazing turnaround his career took when he got players around him. Does that make him a "game manager who is not capable of carrying a team on his own"? No. It makes him a quarterback that got a chance to showcase his capabilities thanks to a TEAM around him.

What I mean more specifically is physically. His physical abilities are what they are and we have seen enough to have a good idea of his capabilities.

I am assuming that QB's even if they start out rough and inefficient, from the get-go you see the physical gifts there. Andrew Luck for example has been a bit of a turnover machine but the physical tools are present and weren't something that were "coached up"

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NoCalHail

What I mean more specifically is physically. His physical abilities are what they are and we have seen enough to have a good idea of his capabilities.



I am assuming that QB's even if they start out rough and inefficient, from the get-go you see the physical gifts there. Andrew Luck for example has been a bit of a turnover machine but the physical tools are present and weren't something that were "coached up"

So he can throw the ball further from a standing position? I guess if this were American gladiator id take more stock in a quarterbacks physical attributes. KC has proven he can take a hit. He moves well. He can throw the ball plenty far. Dont have to be too tremendously physically gifted to play quarterback. Just have to be able to .......play quarterback.

[punch it in]

As a matter of fact here is a clip of SM talking to KC that will help you understand the process.

http://youtu.be/bmDakhg45rk

[JoeRedskin]

KC's arm strength is not top-tier. It's not a "candy-ass" arm talent either. It is - like all things Kirk, somewhere in the middle. Certainly good enough to be an NFL starter.

Physically, in response to your earlier question, yes. Kirk has reached his ceiling.

As to the mental aspects of the game, he has improved his "floor" significantly in that we have not had a "Oh-Dear-God" game in quite since the Jets.

Has he reached his ceiling as to the mental aspects? I am willing to reconsider, but still think what we have seen since the Jets game is what he is - Solid starter but very scheme and personnel dependent. I just don't think any substantial growth beyond what we have seen is likely to occur.

Again, what have seen since the Jets game is solid starting QB who, with the right scheme and personnel, is a QB that could take a team deep into the play-offs and possibly win a SB w/out the need for a Ravenesque defense or Beast Mode back.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

KC's arm strength is not top-tier. It's not a "candy-ass" arm talent either. It is - like all things Kirk, somewhere in the middle. Certainly good enough to be an NFL starter.

Physically, in response to your earlier question, yes. Kirk has reached his ceiling.

As to the mental aspects of the game, he has improved his "floor" significantly in that we have not had a "Oh-Dear-God" game in quite since the Jets.

Has he reached his ceiling as to the mental aspects? I am willing to reconsider, but still think what we have seen since the Jets game is what he is - Solid starter but very scheme and personnel dependent. I just don't think any substantial growth beyond what we have seen is likely to occur.

Again, what have seen since the Jets game is solid starting QB who, with the right scheme and personnel, is a QB that could take a team deep into the play-offs and possibly win a SB w/out the need for a Ravenesque defense or Beast Mode back.

watching the Carolina vs Skins game, its painfully clear. Watching Cam throw and watching Cousins throw....Cam can make every throw and has amazing arm strength. Cousins...well....not so much

[Bucket]

We should all know by now that you need more then arm strength to be a NFL QB. (RG3)

As long as Kirk can make all the throws (which he can), it shouldn't matter if he can throw it to the moon.

Also, most QB hit their ceiling in physical traits once the get to NFL. It's the mental aspect that sets the bar for an NFL QB. I would hope everyone on this board knows that

[Brody81]

Originally Posted by Bucket

We should all know by now that you need more then arm strength to be a NFL QB. (RG3)





As long as Kirk can make all the throws (which he can), it shouldn't matter if he can throw it to the moon.





Also, most QB hit their ceiling in physical traits once the get to NFL. It's the mental aspect that sets the bar for an NFL QB. I would hope everyone on this board knows that

This.. If I remember correctly Jeff George could throw the hell out of the football..

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

watching the Carolina vs Skins game, its painfully clear. Watching Cam throw and watching Cousins throw....Cam can make every throw and has amazing arm strength. Cousins...well....not so much

Cam has been terribly inaccurate for years until now. He has always been physically gifted but until he learned how to read the field and make his throws he was never this good.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

watching the Carolina vs Skins game, its painfully clear. Watching Cam throw and watching Cousins throw....Cam can make every throw and has amazing arm strength. Cousins...well....not so much

I hate to harken back to RGIII glory days, but I am going to. (sidenote: ugh, close the thread to keep nimwits like me from posting!!!)

I remember being at training camp and watching RGIII and Cousins side by side dropping back, turning and releasing on the throws. RGIII was just a much more smooth performer. That's what I think of when I see JR talking about ceiling vs floor. Cousins is never going to be that fluid all in one package with great arm strength smooth release and an ability to make "magic" happen. What he is, is a QB that can be a consistent starter with enough mojo to win the games his team should win. Right now that's where I see his ceiling.

As for his floor, it continues to rise. and that's a good thing.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I hate to harken back to RGIII glory days, but I am going to. (sidenote: ugh, close the thread to keep nimwits like me from posting!!!)



I remember being at training camp and watching RGIII and Cousins side by side dropping back, turning and releasing on the throws. RGIII was just a much more smooth performer. That's what I think of when I see JR talking about ceiling vs floor. Cousins is never going to be that fluid all in one package with great arm strength smooth release and an ability to make "magic" happen. What he is, is a QB that can be a consistent starter with enough mojo to win the games his team should win. Right now that's where I see his ceiling.



As for his floor, it continues to rise. and that's a good thing.

Too bad griff couldn't translate onto the field after teams took away his ability to run in the somewhat gimmicky offense. I would imagine in practice or training camp even now griff might appear to be the smoother faster strong armed qb but certainly not in game. As for floor / ceiling stuff of course KC is not going to ever be Cam Newton running and throwing with ferocity but who cares he is a better qb than griff will ever be. He continues to learn and mature. He continues to gain better pocket awareness. He continues to see the field better and with 2 minutes left in a close game i dont want anyone else under center.

[Schneed10]

What amazing arm strength buys you is the ability to zip the ball in even when you're off balance. And when are you most often off balance? When you're being pressured.

That's what Jay Cutler gives the Bears, he can be falling back on his ass as a double A gap blitz comes in his face, and do a 3/4 motion and still zip it in tight coverage. But as we know, that's only a small part of the QB equation, and nobody would anoint Cutler just because of that.

Cousins won't be able to give us that. But must he to succeed? I don't think so.

[NoCalHail]

Right, as some have brought up examples already (at work sorry with the slow response).

Kirk doesn't have a noodle arm, but his arm strength isn't towards the top either. No one doubts his ability to take a 5-7 step drop and heave the ball downfield to an open D-Jax. We've seen him do it.

But there are other routes, especially crossing patterns where the QB has to get the ball to the WR with a lot of zip not because it is a deep pass but because of the route, and the coverage and the fact that the catch will be made with the WR running towards the sideline with little room to get feet down after the ball hits his hands.

He simply doesn't have the zip on his throws that elite arm-strength QB's do. It doesn't negate everything else about him it's just simply an observation.